Has anyone heard of a new AIAG standard that relates to heat treating? My understanding is that it is called HT2005 and would be required registration for heat treaters that supply the big three in addition to TS. Young Kim from FORD STA was talking about it and said it is coming soon. I have not heard anything about this from any other source.

Any info on this would be appreciated. My understanding is that the big three got together to work on this and had the AIAG involved. I saw nothing on their website. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

:confused:

See this thread
http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9692&highlight=ht2005

Tom W - I had left you a message to check that thread. Check here (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=91607&postcount=14)

Thanks - I knew after I wrote the thread that I should have first done a search - when will I ever learn???

Thanks.

I am a bit dismayed that the Big 3 think we need yet another heat treating standard to work to! I am in QA for a commerical heat treater that is already Ford W-HTX approved, does other work for Chrysler, Volvo, Freightliner, etc. and the vast preponderance of requirements makes it tough for us. We are also ISO and TS 16949:2002 certified, and while I agree that standards are needed, more documents do not a better supplier make. It would also be better if the Big 3 were not so hypocritical in their approach about making the supplier accountable to standards and practices that they do not require of themselves. Glad for the Cove, so I have some place to vent! :eek:

I am in QA for a commerical heat treater that is already Ford W-HTX approved... :eek:

Hi

We are going thru Ford Q1 preparations and are trying to gear up for the W-HTX. We don't have any feeling for how detailed this will be.

Did Ford come on site to audit against HTX? Or did they let you send in a self assessment?

If they were on site, was it a knowledgeable heat treat person? How long did they audit? Did they use the checklist ans scoring system? Light weight or detailed?

Hope you can shed some light on this for us.

Young Kim of Ford came on site and conducted the audit himself with our customer. He obviously knows heat treating, but he has some unconventional views on subjects. He also does not live in the "real world" of commercial heat treating; if it is in the standard, you'd better be doing it, whether it applies to your operation or not. Pay special attention to process controls and work instructions. Also, material control is a major concern (green parts in close proximity to parts in-process or completed). Remember: the majority of failures from heat treating facilities is due to mixed parts (part numbers that look alike, or green and finished parts).

Young Kim of Ford came on site and conducted the audit himself with our customer. He obviously knows heat treating, but he has some unconventional views on subjects. He also does not live in the "real world" of commercial heat treating; if it is in the standard, you'd better be doing it, whether it applies to your operation or not. Pay special attention to process controls and work instructions. Also, material control is a major concern (green parts in close proximity to parts in-process or completed). Remember: the majority of failures from heat treating facilities is due to mixed parts (part numbers that look alike, or green and finished parts).

Thanks for the heads up. Is Young Kim the author of the HTX and the driving force behind the new TS Heat treat standard?

The HTX audit is very tough to score well on - we need to be well advanced to score 7s across the board.

Was the focus on SPC at the process level (times and temps) or product level (tensiles, Hardnesses <SQC>)?

I actually sort of look forward to this audit - it will show us pretty clearly where we stand compared to best in class.

Even preparing for it has made us better, I appreciate all the effort he put into it.

Do you primarily have continuous furnaces or batch? If continuous, use X-MR charts on times and temps, carb settings, etc. If batch, use capability histograms on product characteristics like hardness, case, etc. It is always better to focus on control of process parameters, since if these are correct, the product characteristics should be correct (theoretically)
Hope this helps you.

Do you primarily have continuous furnaces or batch? If continuous, use X-MR charts on times and temps, carb settings, etc. If batch, use capability histograms on product characteristics like hardness, case, etc. It is always better to focus on control of process parameters, since if these are correct, the product characteristics should be correct (theoretically)
Hope this helps you.

Thanks for the feedback and the ideas.

We run continuous furnaces. We have just got set up to collect temperatures in real time off the PLC system. We also have our stopped the paper charts and have our hardness and tensile results time stamped and in a database.

So I guess my next task is to see if I can correlate temperature variations to changes in properties.

With Aluminum castings, I think there is far more scatter than with steel due to casting defects, but right now I have no data...so I better get the facts.

Thanks again for the help.

BTW - I jsut saw an article on the AIAG web site.

The heat treat standard for TS is only the start, it is just a pilot project for all "special processes".

Welding, plating, painting are all coming soon (06-07)!

Just like the Eveready bunny TS keeps going and going and going

Thanks for the feedback and the ideas.

We run continuous furnaces. We have just got set up to collect temperatures in real time off the PLC system. We also have our stopped the paper charts and have our hardness and tensile results time stamped and in a database.

So I guess my next task is to see if I can correlate temperature variations to changes in properties.

With Aluminum castings, I think there is far more scatter than with steel due to casting defects, but right now I have no data...so I better get the facts.

Thanks again for the help.

BTW - I jsut saw an article on the AIAG web site.

The heat treat standard for TS is only the start, it is just a pilot project for all "special processes".

Welding, plating, painting are all coming soon (06-07)!

Just like the Eveready bunny TS keeps going and going and going

And going. Attached is the Draft HT 2005 Document & the Draft Survey.

Hey Bigfoot or anyone,
Got a question RE HT2005, refers to AMS 2750 ( Aerospace?) which refers to Level I and Level II Heat Treat.
Anyone know how these levels are defined, and what they mean?

Hey Bigfoot or anyone,
Got a question RE HT2005, refers to AMS 2750 ( Aerospace?) which refers to Level I and Level II Heat Treat.
Anyone know how these levels are defined, and what they mean?

Any ideas on this?

Ralph - AMS stands for aerospace material specification. I reviewed some of them in a past job where I heat treated precipitation hardening steel tensile specimens to guarantee that the materials would react properly to heat treating. I regret that I do not remember a distinction between level I and level II, and don't have access to any AMS specifications in my current QA engineer position. My memory is that the specifiations I did review had fairly stringent temperature uniformity requirements that had to be verified by furnace uniformity surveys, with total uncertainty calculated. Equipment used for this had to be NIST tracable. Typical thermal cycle for ph grades of stainless was solution treat - 1750 or 1900 F (dependent on grade), air cool or cool to -100 F (dependent on grade), then age at 900 to 1150 F dependent on properties desired (again grade dependent and more temperatures could be used). Solution treating had a +/- 25 F requirement, while the aging requirements were +/- 15 F. There was a lot more detail, but the info above should provide a general idea of some requirements.

Kevin,
Thanks for the reply. I'll pass this along to our Heat Treat Manager. He is trying to get ready for the HT 2005 implementation.

Does anyone know where i can but a copy of this standard. i tried looing at the aiag web site but could not find the standard.

Does anyone know where i can but a copy of this standard. i tried looing at the aiag web site but could not find the standard.
Have a look in this thread: HT2005 for heat treating - Has anyone seen a copy of the DRAFT? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?postid=117889#poststop)

Does anyone have a more recent draft of the HT2005 they can upload? The last one I have is dated 3 - Jun-2005.

:thanx: