A question for a jury of my peers:

My company is currently getting nonconformance reports via email from one of our customers. (Not good, but that's another story). As of right now, these emails are going to the sales rep, who just forwards them on to me (your friendly neighborhood Quality Mgr.). The way things are going, these emails are just flying around and there is no tracking system in place (i.e. is it a valid nonconformance? do we have product on the floor with the same problem? and all those other fine non-con questions).

We have a procedure that sales is suppose to follow for recording customer complaints.

So the big question is, are customer-found nonconformances the same as customer complaints, especially if the customer forwards the nonconformance information to your company? (I do realize there are other forms of customer complaints. To my knowledge, these are being handled correctly.)

I am trying to resolve this because I'm sick and tired of emails just flying around with no method of tracking any resolution. I was trying to think of a method to handle the situation when it dawned on my that the customer complaint system could handle this, if this is truly applicable.

That's my (current) problem and I await your informative feedback.
:thanks:

A question for a jury of my peers:

My company is currently getting nonconformance reports via email from one of our customers. (Not good, but that's another story). As of right now, these emails are going to the sales rep, who just forwards them on to me (your friendly neighborhood Quality Mgr.). The way things are going, these emails are just flying around and there is no tracking system in place (i.e. is it a valid nonconformance? do we have product on the floor with the same problem? and all those other fine non-con questions).

We have a procedure that sales is suppose to follow for recording customer complaints.

So the big question is, are customer-found nonconformances the same as customer complaints, especially if the customer forwards the nonconformance information to your company? (I do realize there are other forms of customer complaints. To my knowledge, these are being handled correctly.)

I am trying to resolve this because I'm sick and tired of emails just flying around with no method of tracking any resolution. I was trying to think of a method to handle the situation when it dawned on my that the customer complaint system could handle this, if this is truly applicable.

That's my (current) problem and I await your informative feedback.
:thanks:IMO, yes these e-mails informing you of nonconformances are customer complaints. The question is, Are there other systems in place that handles the reported nonconformances? Is the effort being duplicated.

IMO, yes these e-mails informing you of nonconformances are customer complaints. The question is, Are there other systems in place that handles the reported nonconformances? Is the effort being duplicated.
Our nonconformance system handles internal nonconformance issues (those encountered up through the point of shipping). That's why I don't know into what camp this problem should be placed.

Also from what I can see, effort is not only not being duplilcated, most of these nonconformance issues are just being left in a corner to die. :frust:

Our nonconformance system handles internal nonconformance issues (those encountered up through the point of shipping). That's why I don't know into what camp this problem should be placed.

Also from what I can see, effort is not only not being duplilcated, most of these nonconformance issues are just being left in a corner to die. :frust:Definitely handle them as a customer complaint.

Definitely handle them as a customer complaint.
I agree.

We also receive nonconforming information through emails; sometimes the Plant Manager receives it, sometimes Sales, sometimes our "Customer Service" people who quote and follow-up work in progress and are in constant communication with the customer, sometimes the QA Manager (me)...

Our group does a good job at making sure that if they receive correspondance, whether emailed or faxed or received with returned product, they forward it to the QA Manager immediately. I transfer the information onto our internal form and we proceed as usual with the review and investigation process.

These are definitely Customer Complaints and should generate Corrective Actions
We use an "form" to capture this information and enter it into our quality system.

Another thought that I want to throw out and make sure I'm on the same page.

Just because you receive a nonconformance notice from a customer doesn't necessarily mean that a corrective action needs to be issued.

Example:
Customer rejects a nonconforming panel - might or might not require a CAR.
Customer sends a nonconformance notice because the last 3 shipments of panels you made had nonconforming material - a very good candidate for a CAR.


I have had companies request CA for 1 failure out of multiple deliveries over several years. While the nonconformance shouldn't be dismissed, if there is no history or pattern of nonconformance, how can the incident be investigated for CA? (aka "Stuff happens")

Addendum: I sent this in at the exact same time GoKats78 sent theirs in. Brillant minds must think alike, or else they have dealt with too many corrective actions.
Another logical reason not to start a CA for every non-con is that we have been written up as nonconforming for parts we weren't under contract to deliver (and didn't deliver). Go figure!

Another thought that I want to throw out and make sure I'm on the same page.

Just because you receive a nonconformance notice from a customer doesn't necessarily mean that a corrective action needs to be issued.

Example:
Customer rejects a nonconforming panel - might or might not require a CAR.
Customer sends a nonconformance notice because the last 3 shipments of panels you made had nonconforming material - a very good candidate for a CAR.


I have had companies request CA for 1 failure out of multiple deliveries over several years. While the nonconformance shouldn't be dismissed, if there is no history or pattern of nonconformance, how can the incident be investigated for CA? (aka "Stuff happens")Some 500 lb gorillas want every NC investigated. What does the contract say?

Some 500 lb gorillas want every NC investigated. What does the contract say?

Good point / question. Further investigation required on my end.

...Just because you receive a nonconformance notice from a customer doesn't necessarily mean that a corrective action needs to be issued...
I agree with that also. We do not initiate corrective action for every nonconforming notice either. Our internal form I referenced above is called a "Quality Issue Form" - we review the problem and investigate the causes and possible solutions. We decide at this point whether the problem warrants corrective action.

You also stated that the problem doesn't get addressed - "left in a corner to die". We avoid this by designating me, the QA Mgr, as the one who is notified of any customer reports of problems - whether it is regarding nonconforming product or not. I simply facilitate the review and investigation and make sure they are all addressed.

We also occasionally receive notice of nonconformance by email, phone, or sales agent notification. We try to have it routed through our Customer Service, but they still sometimes come to our Shipping department, me (QA), or the plant manager. If it is a nonconformance issue of any kind, we route it back to Customer Service, who has a procedure to file a Potential Nonconformance report which goes to assigned parties.

I agree with the others, you need to route these emails into your CA system so it gets captured, investigated, and handled the way your system says it should, else you'll wind up getting bit by the customer eventually (or a registrar audit).

Now, not every instance of a customer issue should get treated as a nonconformance. We had a customer ask to send some material back this week. It was shipped exactly according to THEIR spec, and performed well for them, but it "looked" different from the material our competitor ships to them, so they don't "like" it. The contract did not state that the material had to look just like the competitor's. Even if we end up doing them a favor and take the very-much-conforming material back, I won't treat this as a nonconformance. It will get treated in a Management Review meeting, but not as a complaint with CA required.

Also from what I can see, effort is not only not being duplilcated, most of these nonconformance issues are just being left in a corner to die. :frust:...which is bound to cost you serious money in the end. I agree with the others: You need to reel this data in, and if your CA system is fit to handle it, so much the better.

/Claes

Hi all. I am new to the forum. I wish I had found it long ago. I would like to recommend a software product to help you track your customer complaints. The product is "Q-Pulse" and it includes a "Customer" module along with nine other modules which are invaluable in managing your quality system.

I am obligated to tell you that I recently started a business (Q-Solutions) as a reseller of the software....but please don't tune me out as trying to advertise in this forum. I really am not a sales person, but more like many of you. I have worked in a Quality Assurance role for major manufacturing companies (2 different ones) for 25 years. Just over two years ago, I found this software and convinced my company to purchase it.

It is really affordable and so easy to use that I was able to install it myself, customize it, implement all modules, train the users and have been the administrator since implementation. The reason that I started the business is that I truly believe that there are a lot of other QA Professionals out there that can benefit from it as I have. If you are interested, you can find the link to my website in my user profile.

I am obligated to tell you that I recently started a business (Q-Solutions) as a reseller of the software....but please don't tune me out as trying to advertise in this forum. I really am not a sales person, but more like many of you. I have worked in a Quality Assurance role for major manufacturing companies (2 different ones) for 25 years. Just over two years ago, I found this software and convinced my company to purchase it.

It is really affordable and so easy to use that I was able to install it myself, customize it, implement all modules, train the users and have been the administrator since implementation. The reason that I started the business is that I truly believe that there are a lot of other QA Professionals out there that can benefit from it as I have. If you are interested, you can find the link to my website in my user profile.
Unfortunately it does come across as you being a salesman. Nothing wrong in that in itself but it does tend to distort the discussion when someone comes in with a "I have the very thing to solve all your problems." It does not help some of the issues identified by RCW and others. Have a word with Marc about an ad spot on the cove.

We have a Customer service department that handles all customer complaints. Part of their effort is C/A. Seldom is QA even involved at this level. QA becomes involved when a part is returned (when authorised by Customer Service) as a result of a customer complaint. QA may be asked to investigate by inspecting the part. Then root cause is determined and appropriate action is taken. This is all documented on a Warranty Report which is tracked for trends. QA will write a non conformance on returned goods if and only if the parts was purchased from a supplier. This is a very brief explanation of our process.

Unfortunately it does come across as you being a salesman. Nothing wrong in that in itself but it does tend to distort the discussion when someone comes in with a "I have the very thing to solve all your problems." It does not help some of the issues identified by RCW and others. Have a word with Marc about an ad spot on the cove.

Sorry to come across that way. The help that I was trying to provide was in response to RCW's first post in which he said,
"I am trying to resolve this because I'm sick and tired of emails just flying around with no method of tracking any resolution."

At our company, the call/email/Fax may come in to Sales & Marketing, QA Manger, QA Investigator, Customer Service or whoever else might answer the phone. The key is that regardless who receives the complaint, they know what to do with it. They enter it in Q-Pulse and assign it to the responsible person, who receives an instant message that a complaint exists. Once entered, it can be tracked until resolution. Management can check status in the "Workload" module to ensure that the complaints are resolved by the target date assigned.

Welcome to the Cove, KimLoree:bigwave:

In fairness to the various folks out there looking for various solutions to the problem of tracking, following up, and leaving an audit trail for the function of complaint, customer relationship, corrective action, internal discovery of nonconforming product or service, evaluation of sufficiency of corrective action, development of preventive action or mistake proofing to prevent future nonconformances:

There are many varieties of off-the shelf, custom-designed, home-made, freeware, shareware, etc. types of software as well as paper-based filing and tracking systems (what I used back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and into the 80s before desktop computers started becoming available at an affordable price.)

As a salesperson for your product line,you would help establish credibility for your product IF you first establish credibility for yourself by demonstrating your background knowledge in the field and offering a variety of solutions (one of which might include your product line), since most would agree "one size does NOT fit all."

As you spend time reading through the Cove, you'll get a better sense of the nearly infinite variety of organizations and financial circumstances of those organizations represented here.

Until you get that sense of background, your sales pitch is like the guy who goes down the street with a full bucket of water in each hand. His sales pitch is "I'm selling water and eventually I'll come across someone with a fire and then I have a sure sale!"

There are many varieties of off-the shelf, custom-designed, home-made, freeware, shareware, etc. types of software as well as paper-based filing and tracking systems (what I used back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and into the 80s before desktop computers started becoming available at an affordable price.)

As a salesperson for your product line,you would help establish credibility for your product IF you first establish credibility for yourself by demonstrating your background knowledge in the field and offering a variety of solutions (one of which might include your product line), since most would agree "one size does NOT fit all."

:topic:
Thanks for the advice Wes. I certainly didn't mean to drag this thread off topic.
With 25 years experience in Quality Assurance, I have experienced each of the paper based, off the shelf, custom designed and homemade systems. I happened to find a solution that worked very well for our company. I'm aware that it might not be the best fit for every company, but whether I stood to benefit or not, I would still recommend it to others.
As for establishing my credibility...I expect that won't happen overnight. Having found this site only two days ago, I have seen several threads to which I think I could contribute, but have been a little shy, :o since my first post went over so well.

I have seen several threads to which I think I could contribute, but have been a little shy, :o since my first post went over so well.Shy? No need to be Kim, very few of us bite... so post away. And welcome to the Cove:bigwave:

/Claes

Hi,
Everyone has given some excellent advice but it that happened to me I would be intiating a car to the sales manager because his staff is not documenting the negative feedback or giving copies to you to reveiw an act on. I am sure you have a written process for complaints and returns that the sales department is "trained" on so if they are not following procedure then they need to be re-trained.

Every so often I have to issue a car to our sales staff because they start to forget one major issue that causes returns, or a new person comes on board and wants to do it their way!

If I have misintrepeted the original intent of the thread I apologize.
Have a great weekend!
Bridget

Hi,
Everyone has given some excellent advice but it that happened to me I would be intiating a car to the sales manager because his staff is not documenting the negative feedback or giving copies to you to reveiw an act on. I am sure you have a written process for complaints and returns that the sales department is "trained" on so if they are not following procedure then they need to be re-trained.

Every so often I have to issue a car to our sales staff because they start to forget one major issue that causes returns, or a new person comes on board and wants to do it their way!

If I have misintrepeted the original intent of the thread I apologize.
Have a great weekend!
Bridget

Bridget,
Your reply is right on the money! The sales person will get a nice talkin' to and probably find himself with a CAR (and I don't mean the 4-wheel kind :lol: ). It's always nice to know that you set up systems to be in compliance with requirements, then people just do whatever they feel like anyway.

I know that's what the whole internal audit / quality system development stuff is all about, but when you keep pulling out your hair, you eventually run out of hair sometime.