We produce automotive antenna.
We meet some customers who can't provide their own technic specific. They only have one sample antenna and forbid us to damage the sample for test.
So we can only call such customer to negotiate that technic specific would be accord with our own enterprise specific standard.
In such case, the customer would give only a oral agreement with no signature.
So we can only make phone log which denote that the customer accept our specific standard by word of mouth.
Does such phone log without signature can be evidence of customer's agreement of technic specific in TS16949?

We produce automotive antenna.
We meet some customers who can't provide their own technic specific. They only have one sample antenna and forbid us to damage the sample for test.
So we can only call such customer to negotiate that technic specific would be accord with our own enterprise specific standard.
In such case, the customer would give only a oral agreement with no signature.
So we can only make phone log which denote that the customer accept our specific standard by word of mouth.
Does such phone log without signature can be evidence of customer's agreement of technic specific in TS16949?
In my opinion, YES. In addition to your own phone log, you might send written confirmation to your customer (email, fax, snail mail), outlining your understanding and asking them to call immediately if they have a different understanding.

The secondary thing you can do with this confirmation letter is to establish the ground rules for acceptance by the customer (inspection method and instruments and the criteria and tolerances.)

In America, we have a slang term for this - we call it "inoculating the customer" (giving him a shot of "preventive serum" to keep him from coming back and making you sick.)

Good, solid question, yundm. I was happy to answer it for you.

I'm picky. I record the time, day and date, whom I spoke with, the number I reached them at and whether it went through a switchboard. I also send a confirming e-mail. I agree with Wes in that it is best to call to confirm receipt of the reply e-mail and verify one last time.

Technically that's two calls to log and the confirming e-mail.

That brings up another point:
WHERE DO YOU KEEP THE RECORD OF THE PHONE CALL?

Back in the 80's, I used to keep a separate log of ALL phone calls:
name, rank, co name, direct phone or extension, date, time, summary of call.

Then I would transfer a copy of the data to either customer central file or the order file or both, still maintaining my separate log.

Once I started using car phones and cell phones and wireless extensions to land lines, the burden of maintaining so many records for one item was overwhelming. We created our own "Customer Relationship Management" (CRM) software so we only entered data once and, through the relational database, we could access that record in a number of ways. As we refined our CRM software and commercial software companies started refining theirs, we were able to "automatically" send email and/or fax confirmation to client and other pertinent parties, plus trigger an automatic "tickler" that would remind us if we hadn't received an acknowledgement within the time period set when the record was made, with a default period of 7 calendar days. The "memo" went on travelers as work progressed through the shop and we included a copy with each shipment's Quality documentation.

TIP: Always :ca: - the first time you are able to document your position (and the other party's acknowledgement of it) when a dispute arises, you will sing the praises of the system forever after.

The secondary thing you can do with this confirmation letter is to establish the ground rules for acceptance by the customer.


Thank you, Wes. Appreciate you all helps.

We certainly tried to do such confirmation fax and wrote clearly that "default is agreement if no feedback". No customer give us feedback. They give us only oral agreement. They may worry about possible risk because of ignorance on antenna but they however want us to do this product and we must exist.
We had discussed whether or not reserving such original fax text. The conclusion is :
The confirmation fax is not necessarily holden.
All judge to phone log is same as to fax without feedback.
If phone log is under suspicion, the fax without feedback is same possible to be spurious.
The customer may always announce not receiving fax if he want.
The telecom service can prove only act not content of fax.

Yesterday, a Chinese TS16949 auditor pointed out that we have not enough evidence because we reserve only phone log without customer's signature.
I asked him for term in TS16949 where describe that the evidence such as phone log must be with customer's signature.
He couldn't give me clearly answer but he however require us to correct.
How can I do?
It seems that some customers never give us signature except order. I can't raise identification of evidence to a level of law because I am discussing a standard.
Help me.

That brings up another point:
WHERE DO YOU KEEP THE RECORD OF THE PHONE CALL?


Thanks all.
We keep record of the phone call for every customer.
That is say every customer has a execl which record the date, who, phone number and content.

Many organizations encounter this situation of unprepared or uncooperative customers. The folks who wrote the Standards also know this.

Your responsibility as an organization is first to maintain your own business processes and ensure your product or service meets customer's requirement TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND ABILITY.

Once you have done the steps outlined in this thread

confirm requirements verbally
reduce your understanding of the requirements to a written document (electronic is OK)
Send a copy to customer for confirmation (any means - hard copy, electronic, Fax)
you have fulfilled all your "shalls" under the Standard.

You cannot "control" your customer, only your own organization. Therefore, you are only held responsible for the processes under your control.

IF customer does give you acknowledgement and feedback in writing, that's just a bonus.

This next item is also common
Yesterday, a Chinese TS16949 auditor pointed out that we have not enough evidence because we reserve only phone log without customer's signature.

I asked him for term in TS16949 where describe that the evidence such as phone log must be with customer's signature.

He couldn't give me clearly answer but he however require us to correct.
How can I do?

You did the right thing, but you have to carry it one step further.

If the auditor who visits you cannot show you the "shall" in the Standard, you raise the issue with the auditor's supervisor. In my opinion, the auditor is wrong by trying to enforce his opinion, rather than the actual terms of the Standard. If necessary, we will list several qualified and credible experts who will confirm this view with your auditor's manager.