Shakespeare's Lessons in Leadership: Hamlet [Elsmar Cove Index (Ar)]

ccochran

18th February 2005, 12:16 PM

Roxane,

Those are some great questions. I think I consider Hamlet to be a little like Jimmy Carter: a very smart guy who has deep thoughts and good intentions, but not an effective leader on the level he must perform at. Your mention of Lady Macbeth caused an epiphany: she's a great example of a leader (albeit a tad bit evil). I've already written an article on Mr. Macbeth, but a large part of it is consumed with the exploits of Lady Macbeth. She's a natural! Maybe not someone you would trust your kids with, but an interesting demonstration of a number of strong attributes. Sharpen your knives...

Craig,

I think there's a little King Lear in all upper level managers. It takes a very rationale and humble leader to realize their power lies in their position, not so much in themselves. Of coures, the leader's personal attributes greatly shape the position, but it still comes down to the position and title that carries intrinsic weight. The King Lears fall very hard when they finally fall. And madness is an essential trait of top managers, anyway. :)

Jaime,

I'll check into Jack Ryan. I unfortunately haven't read much Clancy, but I'll get myself a copy.

Claes,

I was hoping someone would encourage my Shakespeare exploration! Thanks for doing that. It effectively knocks out two objectives at the same time: understand more about Shakespeare and understand more about leadership. Now if I could only do both while riding a unicycle and juggling...then I could join the circus. I may try to join a circus anyway. Your idea of The Taming of the Shrew is great. I'll need to dig it back out and refresh my understanding of it.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Craig

RCBeyette

18th February 2005, 01:44 PM

ccochran

18th February 2005, 10:37 PM

RCBeyette

21st February 2005, 09:10 AM

Roxane,

I don't know why Macbeth is always the first Shakespeare people are exposed to in high school. It's bleak, cynical, and very violent. Hey, perfect for the high schoolers! I bet you were a kick b*tt Lady Macbeth. Do you still have the tape of you playing her? You need to digitize it and post it here.

Craig

Hah! You couldn't pay me enough to do that! :o Actually, for us, the first Shakespearean play to study was "The Merchant of Venice"...another strong round of female characters. Now that I think about it, though, our English teacher in Grade 9 and Grade 10 was a bit of an extreme feminist...

Greg B

21st February 2005, 06:17 PM

Craig,

We were first exposed to Julius Ceasar and it probably has potential for a leadership spin.
I think the best one for a leadership story would be Henry V 'Once more into the breach....' (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097499/) Kenneth Branagh starred in the movie.

ccochran

21st February 2005, 11:22 PM

Greg,

Great idea! I'm reading Henry V right now, in fact. I just finished the scene where the French noblemen (Dauphin, Constable, Orleans) are bragging about how they're going to kick some English tail. Little do they know what is waiting for them. I rented the Kenneth Branagh movie version a couple of weeks ago, but my wife punked out on me. Everybody has to be equally enthusiastic about a Shakespeare movie in order for it to be enjoyable. That was the night she asked me to rent a Jackie Chan movie, but I came home with Henry V instead. Boy did I screw up!

Roxane,

I'm willing to resort to bribery in order to hear Lady Macbeth in action. How much would it take? I understand I'm negotiating with the big leagues now...

Craig

Wes Bucey

22nd February 2005, 01:43 AM

There have been frequent times in my corporate life when I replayed the Thane of Caldor's encounter with the phantom dagger in Act II when he begins his soliloquy

Is this a dagger which I see before me,
The handle toward my hand? Come, let me clutch thee.
I have thee not, and yet I see thee still.
Art thou not, fatal vision, sensible
To feeling as to sight? or art thou but
A dagger of the mind, a false creation,
Proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain?

It was as I was fantasizing about cutting some fellow executive off at the knees for being an obstructionist in MY plans. It was at those moments I truly understood Macbeth's obsession and realized I didn't want to go down THAT path. So, I let the guy live another day.:rolleyes:

And so, unlike McBeth, I KEPT my head!

RCBeyette

22nd February 2005, 09:26 AM

I'm willing to resort to bribery in order to hear Lady Macbeth in action. How much would it take? I understand I'm negotiating with the big leagues now...

Craig, Craig, Craig... :nope:

We are like the NHL talks on this issue...so far apart, we might as well conduct negotiations in separate rooms and pass notes back and forth (just like they did). That Lady Macbeth tape will be kept locked away from prying hands, eyes and ears...especially for any hatchlings I should ever have. I remember the razzing I gave my Mom when I saw her report cards from when she was young lady...the last thing I need is for my own offspring to get their grubby paws on this tape. Of course...I should destroy it...but I just can't bring myself to "Erase! Erase darn tape!" (to paraphrase the great Lady herself).

wolfnature

22nd February 2005, 11:26 AM

We are like the NHL talks on this issue...

You just had to bring up the NHL. I'm trying to get over that tragedy :mad: :(

Although I'll bet if The Great One were to ask for that tape you might give in :D

RCBeyette

22nd February 2005, 12:49 PM

We were first exposed to Julius Ceasar and it probably has potential for a leadership spin.

Julius Caesar has loads of potential for issues such as leadership, loyalty and trust. Of course, now that I think about it, I even managed to put a twist on JC...my group turned that play into a comedy.

You just had to bring up the NHL. I'm trying to get over that tragedy

Although I'll bet if The Great One were to ask for that tape you might give in

Tragedy? I thought the NHL talks were more of a dark comedy. :D

Sorry, The Great One, for all of his hockey ability, would be unable to sway me on this tape. Maurice Richard, perhaps, but not Wayne.

Hey, Craig! There's a new leadership paper for you! Leadership within the NHL...it'd be a short paper!

I believe Claes mentioned "The Taming of the Shrew". Was that so much an example of Leadership or perhaps more in line with another of the Quality Management Principles - 'Factual approach to decision making'. TTotS had some people jumping to conclusions before receiving all of the facts.

There you go, Craig...a real paper for you...Shakespeare's Guide to the Quality Management Principles! :D

little__cee

22nd February 2005, 03:18 PM

I admit that I'm a product of a public school education in which I think I read some Romeo and Juliet and that was really about it. I managed to skip every classic known to the rest of the world, even though I think I turned out okay.

This was my first brush with Hamlet and yes I understood your article even though I had no prior knowledge of the plot details.

In a bit of irony, I read your article to avoid a horrible task of writing instructions for supervisors about how our new corrective action program will work once the 'overhaul' takes place. So, yes, I read about a 'hero' avoiding his given task while I was successfully avoiding my task...thought that make me a few of you smile. :agree1:

AllanJ

22nd February 2005, 04:00 PM

At my old English grammar school we were required to study one Shakespeare play per term. Over the course of 4 years or so, that amounted to 12 in total. And of course we were expected to remember and be able to recite particular verses, as Wes has done so earlier in this thread.

Some stick in your mind, especially when one is working in "quality" and "auditing".

As an example, Viola's shrewd summary of a particular character showing how well she could weigh-up people, an essential trait for leaders:

"This fellow's wise enough to play the fool,
And to do that craves a kind of wit.
He must observe their mood on whom he jests,
the quality of persons and the time,
And like the haggard check at every feather that comes before his eye.
This is a practice as full of labour as a wise man's art.
For folly that he wisely shows is fit,
But wise men folly fallen quite taint their wit."

ccochran

23rd February 2005, 12:21 AM

Wes,

Ah, that floating dagger. I've seen it a number of times myself. If fact, it has morphed into a baseball bat, a .357, a bazooka, and other weapons as well, right before my eyes. They all beckon me. Thank God I've declined their offer. Then again, I didn't have the encouragement of three witches and a powerful wife to make me take the bait, either. I should correct that last statement: I have a powerful wife, but she's usually pointing the baseball bat, .357, and bazooka at me, not telling me to use them on anybody else.

Roxane and Wolfnature,

Yes, the whole NHL situation is pretty horrible. Hard heads all the way around. As long as the Beermasters and Brewery Owners don't cancel their season, I'll be okay, though. I can watch lady boxing with the right amount of beer. Actually, I kind of like lady boxing. Roxane, listen, your offspring are going to love your tapes of Lady Macbeth. The first step is to let your PUBLIC hear them. Your fans want your product! Don't disappoint all these poor souls. Don't be like the NHL...

Little Cee,

Thanks for your gracious and sweet feedback. I too am a product of the public schools...Cobb County, Georgia, public schools in fact! That's where they've put the stickers in science text books warning everyone that evolution is just a shaky theory. Oh, boy. I graduated a long time before all that stuff got stirred up, thank goodness. If this article held the interest of a smart person like you, then I definitely accomplished something. Did I really cause you to procrastinate?!? That's great! You come by Hamlet's thoughtful soul naturally. Me, I keep seeing those floating daggers that Macbeth and Wes saw. I'm up in Lumberton, NJ, tonight. Is that anywhere your part of Pennsylvania? It's about 11:30 PM now. I could be on your doorstep by 1 AM for sure.

Allan,

Wow, what an incredible quote. Viola is a great example of a sharp Shakespearean gal. I don't know Twelfth Night very well, but I better add that to my list. Your grammar school must have been a very good one. It wasn't anywhere near Cobb County, GA, was it?

Cheers all!
Craig

AllanJ

23rd February 2005, 10:13 AM

Allan,

Wow, what an incredible quote. Viola is a great example of a sharp Shakespearean gal. I don't know Twelfth Night very well, but I better add that to my list. Your grammar school must have been a very good one. It wasn't anywhere near Cobb County, GA, was it?

Craig

Craig, actually it was then known as Sutton County Grammar School in Sutton, Surrey, UK. That is about 11 miles south of London. The word "County" was dropped and the school has survived the ravages of political policy. It was a very good school: a national school, not fee paying. Entrance was by passing what was then known as the "11 plus" examination at the age of 11 years, administered by the educational authority.

little__cee

23rd February 2005, 10:41 AM

Not to go off topic with the thread but I'm in the upper Northwest corner of Pennsylvania - right on Lake Erie (can see it from the correct window even) so I'd be a good 7(?) hours from crossing into NJ and then from there I'm not sure how where Lumberton is. I'm not "out East PA" as they say around here - sorry!

:topic: As for no NHL, one night I watched a Paper Rock Scissors championship on The Best D***ed Sports Show with Tom Arnold for a while before I realized it was for real and not a joke or a spoof. Sad, sad times we live in.

And I have a friend in Thomson, Georgia so I know a little about the Cobb County area where you're from.

Back ON topic, my girls are age 4 and 2. So someday when they get to the classics I hope to read them right along with them so we can all learn together. Won't that be fun???

ccochran

2nd July 2005, 01:41 PM

Well, the Hamlet piece finally got published. It appears in this month's (July 2005) Quality Digest: http://www.qualitydigest.com/currentmag/articles/01_article.shtml
Thanks for everyone's feedback and assistance with it.

Happy Independence Day,
Craig

Claes Gefvenberg

3rd July 2005, 02:21 PM

It appears in this month's (July 2005) Quality DigestThat's great, Craig. Any feedback from QD yet, or is it too soon?

/Claes

Jennifer Kirley

3rd July 2005, 08:45 PM

Good news, Craig! :applause: The article was insightful, a fresh perspective and quite worthy of such acknowledgement.

ccochran

3rd July 2005, 11:28 PM

Claes & Jennifer,

Thanks for the kind kudos. So far, the feedback on the article has been positive, though the piece is a little different from the usual fare in Quality Digest. I think people enjoy topics that are approached from novel angles, once they get past the initial reaction.

Hope you're having a nice weekend. The fireworks are crackling outside my window right now. Claes-- Is there an equivalent to Independence Day Weekend in Sweden, when everybody sets off obnoxious fireworks?

Craig

Claes Gefvenberg

4th July 2005, 03:41 AM

Claes-- Is there an equivalent to Independence Day Weekend in Sweden, when everybody sets off obnoxious fireworks?Not really. At least not to the same extent. We have our national day of course (June 6th), but our way of celebrating it is more tranquil.

Then there is Midsummer... :rolleyes: Many consider it our true national day, and at any rate I think that's when the swede really displays a wild streak. No fireworks, but a lot of partying and such :o.

/Claes

Pataha

5th July 2005, 09:54 AM

I agree that Craig’s Article brings about some interesting points about Hamlet’s abilities as a leader. However…..

“A leader must take action based on credible information”

I my humble opinion to act on the sole word of a ghost would be more than flirting with insanity. He is in the process of collecting information. A play (reenactment) is performed. This not only drives Uncle/Stepfather Claudius out of the room, but on his knees in prayer. It is at this point that Uncle/Stepfather Claudius confesses to the murder. At this point what held Hamlet’s hand is more pettiness than inaction. Where would you like the murder of your father to end up in the afterlife? So, like a murder mystery Hamlet attempts to gather evidence to condemn his Uncle/Stepfather.

“A leader must mobilize people”

I must agree that Hamlet never really mobilizes or inspires. Horatio follows from a sense of loyalty. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, turn from him for money and promises from the King.
For mobilization in this play, one would have to look at Laertes as he brings a mob to kill the King and take over the crown. Yet, as is in all cases, there is more to the dynamic. Claudius turns Laertes away from this task and actually turns him toward the demise of Hamlet. It would seem that Laertes has a problem with staying focus.

“A leader must stay focused”

As is pointed out in this article we all at some point lose our focus and put tasks aside.

The first bullet point about “Hamlet’s flirts with insanity” may be a distraction. It was his method to gain time in a potential hostile environment to gather evidence about the true nature of his father’s death. From a historical point of view, being considered insane would protect you from direct attack and as such is being used by Hamlet to gather information.

For the first bullet point would not the “Family Dynamic” be considered as a distraction? You have a dead father, Uncle/Stepfather Claudius, and a mother who married within a month of the death of her first husband. This alone should cause some problems. On top of that, the ghost calls on Hamlet to avenge him by killing Uncle/Stepfather Claudius and though the mother may have also been involved in the murder not to kill her. At this point in history, poison was considered the weapon of choice among the fairer sex. It could be that Shakespeare was pointing out the level of Claudius’ cowardice.

The next two bullet points, I really have no opinion other than already stated concerning the one.
The four bullet point, I may have for my own piece of mind and pettiness change the Frat brothers Rosencrantz and Guildenstern from the title of meddler to “suck up” or “brown nosers”. They are more interested in gaining the King’s favor than to stand by the friend Hamlet. It is only when Hamlet calls upon "by the rites of our fellowship", that you are sure these two tell the truth. From a pettiness point, it is nice to think that suck-ups have tragic end. This would have to go for Polonius.

The last bullet point seems to be about the duel. It is at this point that Hamlet feels he has the evidence needed to present to the Court about his Uncle/Stepfather Claudius. He is seeking a venue to present it. This venue in front of the whole court could be considered a sort of an old equivalent of a Board room meeting.

As a Craig points that Hamlet’s evidence gathering and procrastination, dos lead to disaster. For Horatio is the one to point out the King’s doings and the justification of Hamlet to kill the King. Yet, at this point is leaves Denmark open for a possible hostile takeover by Fortinbras.

“A leader must be wary of competitors”

This is true, even when you supply your competitor. However….
Should a leader have a sense of justice? Laertes has just lost his father and his sister has died under questionable circumstances all of which can be laid at Hamlet’s feet. When a leader has done wrong, what should they do to make amends? In Hamlet’s case, he agrees to a duel that will also serve his reason for returning to Denmark. For others, it may be after a ridiculously long prison sentence, to turn State’s evidence to at least reduce the sentence.

Though probably that is an article about the virtues of Hamlet as a leader, while still pointing out that procrastination does lead to negative outcomes or an overall failure to achieve the objective.
"... What is a man,
If his chief good and market of his time
Is but to sleep and feed? A beast, no more. -- Hamlet"

Overall, a very good article that provides food for thought. :applause:

ccochran

5th July 2005, 10:27 AM

Pataha,

Excellent deconstruction of the Hamlet story! You know your stuff. Here's a question for you: what leader from recent history (last 25-50 years) do you think exhibits attributes similar to Hamlet's? My own pick was Jimmy Carter. Any thoughts?

Craig

ccochran

5th July 2005, 11:23 PM

Pataha,

Where did your post go?!? I was all ready to respond...

Craig

Pataha

6th July 2005, 10:07 AM

The other post was on the fly and your work requires more thought.

I thank you for the complement. However… You set up the theme, outline, and framework from which to work. Without your thoughts and direction, I would not have viewed Hamlet beyond the tradition and from Horatio’s role.
Your approach was inspired. As with such articles that lead me to move out of myself, I review it against the framework of my own life and see what I can integrate into me.

I am still struggling with “A leader must stay focused”. I have in my mind, of great leaders. My pick for recent great leaders would be Mr. Churchill, Mr. Truman, and General MacArthur. I believe that they had to handle many distractions and still maintain the goals they had to achieve.
I would think that a great leader would handle the distractions without being pulled down by them.

The author Patrick McManus, in one of his short stories gives us an illustration of what it is to be bogged down with tasks that cloud us from our goals and we lose focus. In short it basically goes, before I can do this, I must do this. In the workplace, I see this.

I am still not sure about Jimmy Carter, elements in our own system, does prevent some traits of what is defined as a great leader. Which, I believe that we should be thankful, they exist.

You do you believe would be Richard III? I have always leaned toward Nixon.

Jennifer Kirley

6th July 2005, 10:30 AM

In my view Mr.(s) Churchill, Truman and MacAurthur showed remarkable focus, especially when considering they did have many distractions. Showing focus, IMHO, does not mean one should be singleminded, a Johnny-one-note kind of leader.

In an analogy, a good leader must show enough flexibility to remain on course when currents swirl and buffet the boat--this will require slight steering changes but the object is to reach the same destination and not crash into rocks or the banks.

Pataha

6th July 2005, 10:46 PM

ccochran

6th July 2005, 11:52 PM

Pataha,

I should qualify my comment about Mr. Carter. I too had the opportunity to meet him while I was living in Washington DC around 1977 or so. My famiy was standing in this enormous line waiting to get inside the King Tut exhibit at the National Gallery, when suddenly these guys with dark suits parted the crowd right where we were standing. Jimmy and Rosalynn came walking up to us and spent the next few minutes shooting the bull about King Tut and life in general. A pretty amazing thing. And of course he has done incredible things since he left the presidency, many of them clearly leadership related. Carter's precidency seemed a little like a Hamlet experience in some respects, though.

I like your ideas of Churchill, Truman, and MacArthur. Churchill and Truman are favorites of mine. Lyndon Johnson is a favorite of mine, too, but I'm reluctant to admint it. I better not say who I relate to Richard III. Don't want to start any heated political discussions. Nixon is a great candidate, though. Lots and lots of candidates these days.

Jennifer-- You're right. Focus does not make a great leader by itself. Focus must certainly be combined with some flexibility. The strength of focus is like a brittle stick that will shatter into pieces unless it is counterbalanced with flexibility. I think there are some contemperary leaders that illustrate this very clearly.

More matter, less art...
Craig

Pataha

7th July 2005, 01:40 PM

LBJ has some good managment traits of keeping a vision that may or may not have been his own i.e. NASA. For some reason, in the U.S. "The Means justifies the Ends" is held as a negative all the time. LBJ had this approach in regards to his (in)famous breakfast meetings with people from the Hill. If you are from the the West Texas Hill country, LBJ did quite a bit.

Now a question, are addressing leadership, management, or treating them as an hybrid?

Plus, with your comments to Jennifer's comments, how does that fit with your third point in the Hamlet leadership article?

Jennifer Kirley

7th July 2005, 09:27 PM

Fair enough Jennifer, so help me with the connection to the Hamlet and leadership article. Would this mean that you agree with a leader staying focused in spite of distractions and that Hamlet neglected doing this?
How would one apply this to their own life or managment style?I gave myself some time to consider what to say before blurting it out.

Good leadership requires understanding truthfully where one starts, recognizing shortcomings and honestly appreciating what is needed to achieve the destination. A good leader allocates needed resources, both material and performance, to ensure success is enabled. A good leader needs to know how (s)he will define arrival. This seems silly to some but the lack of measurement leaves one with only a vague (and perhaps short lived) feel-good result unless something has irrefutably, physically changed. And when that physical change occurs, the leader should have a means to measure satisfaction with the change because expectations can differ from achievement.

A leader needs to make a plan from this data so as to have any kind of focus. A Gantt chart should help to keep an idea of where they should be in the plan, and key players can be noted in there if so desired. Lists of needed resources must be developed, meaning comparing what the leader has now against what is to be attained--and what will be needed to get there. Even if they delegate making the plan, leaders should keep the plan handy. Hamlet didn't have a plan.

Even in small endeavors there are bound to be some distractions--especially when there are other people involved! A leader must learn to at once deal with what comes up but not stray far from course. If the plan needs to be altered, such as an unexpected training need or a key player is unavailable, then change the plan. Hamlet can't alter a plan he doesn't have.

Sometimes leaders shrink from sharing authority, responsibility and try to do too much themselves. Some distractions might not be so bothersome if there were proper utilization of help sources. These incllude skilled and ready people. Hamlet didn't use his ready people to help--he didn't optimize use of his personnel resources.

Without a coherent plan, all alone among the details and feeling the stress of distracting occurrences, a leader can be overly tempted to overreact to inputs. Hamlet overreacted when he stabbed the curtain and killed Polonius.

Not having a coherent plan, not knowing just what is needed and not having needed expert and ready help, a leader is tempted to go berry-picking from time to time, let schedules slip and transgress into distracting situtations that require effort that saps effort that should have been used to achieve the endeavor. Hamlet, in failing to say "No," allowed himself to tarry to England and had to deal with a bunch of matters that turned serious.

Hamlet failed to take responsibility for his failing to make and adhere to a plan, use resources, and say a well-timed "No."

Did I say too much?

ccochran

7th July 2005, 11:45 PM

Well said!

Pataha

13th July 2005, 12:09 AM

Jennifer,

You handled the issue of focus very nicely. Your Description of leadership and the methods caused another question to arise. I will shelf it until Mr. Cochran’s leadership piece. It sort of hangs in the background.

I still disagree as to Hamlet’s human assets. Partly, because of the social standing of the identified assets. Coupled with the Old Hamlet’s Ghost insisting that they swear not to tell. However, whether or Hamlet uses them does not detract from the theme.

The following quote for me reinforces your comment about Hamlet’s lack of taking responsibility.

Being thus be-netted round with villanies,--
Ere I could make a prologue to my brains,
They had begun the play--I sat me down,
Devised a new commission, wrote it fair:
I once did hold it, as our statists do,
A baseness to write fair and labour'd much
How to forget that learning, but, sir, now
It did me yeoman's service: wilt thou know
The effect of what I wrote?

Jennifer Kirley

17th July 2005, 10:47 PM

I will not claim to be an ace in such literature as this, but the passage you refered me to sounded more like reflection or retrospection than taking responsibility for things as they happened, which I would have preferred the leader to do.

qualitygoddess

18th July 2005, 02:25 PM

This leadership discussion has been quite weighty, informed, inspired and too much work for me to digest (just a humble servant in the court). I would, however, like to congratulate Craig on making the cover of July 2005 Quality Digest. The skull is 'totally radical'.

--QG

:agree1:

ccochran

19th July 2005, 12:17 AM

Pataha & Jennifer,

This is the great thing about Hamlet: smart people can read it in very different ways. It provides endless entertainment for those willing to give it a little time and effort. And I'll admit that the Hamlet character is vastly more complex than I'm giving him credit for being in my article. In an effort to draw out some leadership issues, I ran the risk of turning him into a cartoon character, which would be a tragedy in itself. I'm trying to work something up on Henry V, but I just can't muster the interest in the protagonist. Henry V is too virtuous and too boring. The flawed heros are the ones who seem to be the most interesting.

Goddess,

Thanks for the kudos! I believe that is Dirk Dusharme's hand and pet skull that graces the cover. Dirk is the editor of Quality Digest. He and his staff did a terrific job with the graphic. What a great group of people to work with. I encourage you and anybody else listening to send them an article. By the way, I'm looking forward to meeting you at the Outlook on Quality Standards Conference in Miami. Bring your bikini...

Craig

qualitygoddess

19th July 2005, 11:33 AM

Goddess,

Thanks for the kudos! I believe that is Dirk Dusharme's hand and pet skull that graces the cover. Dirk is the editor of Quality Digest. He and his staff did a terrific job with the graphic. What a great group of people to work with. I encourage you and anybody else listening to send them an article. By the way, I'm looking forward to meeting you at the Outlook on Quality Standards Conference in Miami. Bring your bikini...

Craig :topic:

Craig: If I bring the bikini, then the beaches will clear out, and the attendees can have it all to themselves!

I need some motivation to work on and then finish my presentation by the 8/12 deadline for inclusion on the proceedings CD. Too many distractions this summer.

Back on topic: you can probably skip my private e-mail about the Hamlet article, as I see the publisher took some liberties with the ending, too. I'm planning to pass on my copy of Q Digest to a Fortune 500 VP who recently asked me to come in and speak about leaders as change agents.

--Jodi

Jim Howe

19th July 2005, 12:01 PM

My choice for a great leader would be General Patton! Yes he was one of a kind but imo was capable of inspiring his army to accomplish the unbelieveable! So a great leader must be able to motivate and inspire.
General Lee, at Gettysburg, inspired 15000 to march straight up the hill in the face of heavy union cannon fire. Suicidal yes! But none the less a man capable of motivating.

Pataha

19th July 2005, 04:15 PM

Jennifer,

Hamlet appears to be complaining of the use of skills that are needed to be King and the he though he used them, he wish he could have forgotten them. Hamlet, appears as you wonderfully point out is shirking his responsiblities and so fo me Fair Lady provides a small measure of evidence in support of you fine writing.

Craig,

To make Henry the V a more interesting study, you might want to start following him in Henry IV. Since in that play my children's ancestor "Hotspur" is caompared to the young Henry V as being superior and would be a better King. Upon which Henry V managed to kill Hotspur. At that point, a question comes into play - what motivates a leader? Did Henry V mature the way he did because he had the yardstick of Hotspur to measure himself against?

Jennifer Kirley

19th July 2005, 05:45 PM

Patahaconsulting, you are too kind.

Not for the first time it occurs to me that good leadership is much easier to theorize than execute.

Perhaps that is the genius in the message that Shakespeare delivers. In the spirit and method of the ancient Greek classic tragedies, his stories show very human responses to the various chaotic personal and extrernal forces we all deal with in fashions large or small. Even the most celebrated leaders' actions have dark consequences for some; doing the right thing in scope doesn't ensure it is the right thing for all. I don't want to let ol' Hamlet off the hook, but I must in fairness acknowledge the enormous burden of trying to do the right things well, in the face of all else.

ccochran

20th July 2005, 12:58 AM

Ah, yes. How do you deal with adversity? That seems to be the essential element that distinguishes leaders. Great leaders embrace adversity and find a way around it. They muster all the various components of leadership (communication, motivation, inspiration, and anything else that ends in 'ion'), and they bring people together to help them succeed. Less successful leaders seem to brood over their dilemnas. Not to say that all great leaders confront their challenges head on, but those are the performances that seem to stick in my mind. So we have people like Patton and Mars Roberts (nice picks, Jim!), and others who run headlong into what confronts them. Not always successful, but they inspire and mobilize. I like Hamlet so much because I can see myself in his own actions. If I could be half a Hamlet I'd be doing all right...

Pataha-- Your knowledge of the classics is staggering. I just put Henry IV on my reading list. Hopefully I'll be able to talk intelligently about it soon.

Jodi--Get with it! That's a leader talking. HA! I haven't completed my presentation for that conference, either. Don't sweat it. It will be a huge hit.

Jennifer--You summed up the essence of leadership. It's easy to make a pretty story out of leadership, but there are always darker stories that underly the rah-rah-rah. I personally think too much about those underlying stories (a little like Hamlet). Many of the "great leaders" seem blind or indifferent to these darker angles of their actions. Hamlet considers them very carefully, which makes him a true hero...

With warm summer regards,
Hotspur

qualitygoddess

20th July 2005, 01:35 AM

Not for the first time it occurs to me that good leadership is much easier to theorize than execute.

.

OK, IMHO, Jennifer has hit the nail on the head! (where's the smiley for that??) Many can 'manage', but few can 'lead'. And I think it is because we typically define leadership by using behavioral descriptions, rather than a more explicit definition. I like this definition from an Evans and Lindsay Quality Management textbook: "Leadership is the ability to positively influence people and systems under one’s authority to have a meaningful impact and to achieve important results." Now we can focus on determining and building leadership competencies. Craig mentioned a number of these capabilities/competencies in his article.

So, it's my thought that someone can learn to lead by developing his or her abilities to be on par with the leadership thinking of the era in which we live. For example, a leader must be willing to investigate the risk of a decision, and be willing to take that risk if the data shows the possibility of a certain outcome. I believe this is Craig's first point in the article. Perhaps 150 years from now, it might not be cool to take risks. We might be operating under the global economy to the point where there are only a few mega-mega companies, and 'risk' is an archaic term. Who is to say that Hamlet didn't 'mobilize people to his cause', because the prevailing wisdom of the time was that you handled revenge alone.

I would be interested in this group's thoughts regarding ways to either improve or create competency for the principles cited in Craig's article. Let's create a few scenarios, and speculate on what the outcome would be. For example, in a Fortune 500 publicly traded services company, how would a quality manager for a business unit develop or improve the skill to "mobilize people in support of his cause"? His cause is some quality award, either state or federal (MBNQA in the US). Ideas?

Let's see if you are game............. :thanx:

Jim Howe

20th July 2005, 09:21 AM

Many, many years ago when I was in the US Navy I took a leadership course from Oliver Wendel Holmes, Institute. Throughout this course all theses attributes were dicussed at length but the one I remember most that has stuck with me over the years is "A great leader COMMANDS respect", or he/she must be credible enough for others to submit to leaders tactics. Perhaps one of the most credible men of our time is imo, Colin Powell!

David Hartman

20th July 2005, 10:52 AM

Many of the "great leaders" seem blind or indifferent to these darker angles of their actions. Hamlet considers them very carefully, which makes him a true hero...

Craig,

Alas poor Hamlet, a hero yes; a leader I would have to question based on your above comment. There is a time for giving consideration to the darker angles of our actions, but some (as I believe Hamlet demonstrates) have a tendency to lie mired in the "what ifs" and loose precious time before making a commitment. As this time passes by, competitors maybe moving forward and we can miss out on an opportunity to lead the market. A great leader has to have a feel for knowing how much data is enough to provide some validation of the proposed action without getting weighed down with trying to view all contingencies. I believe that Henry Ford I learned this lesson between starting the Henry Ford Motor Company and starting the Ford Motor Company. At some point must you must stop designing, and begin producing.

If General Patton had spent too much time dwelling on the consequences of a battle maneuver, he would have been defeated before he had the opportunity to put his plans into action. On the other hand, not enough planning can be just as treacherous - the art is in knowing when enough is enough (or at least being able to allow yourself the opportunity to error because you tried something, rather than being defeated because you chose to do nothing).

Jim Wynne

20th July 2005, 11:15 AM

Craig,

...the art is in knowing when enough is enough (or at least being able to allow yourself the opportunity to error because you tried something, rather than being defeated because you chose to do nothing).
A very good point. A an artist was asked about the most difficult part of producing a painting or sculpture and replied, "Knowing when to stop." Leadership is a lot like that.

ralphsulser

20th July 2005, 11:39 AM

Gen. U.S. Grant said to his core and division commanders "Lets not keep worrying what Gen. Lee is going to do to us. Lets think about what we are going to do to him." ....Proactive leadership

Jennifer Kirley

20th July 2005, 12:55 PM

I would be interested in this group's thoughts regarding ways to either improve or create competency for the principles cited in Craig's article. Let's create a few scenarios, and speculate on what the outcome would be. For example, in a Fortune 500 publicly traded services company, how would a quality manager for a business unit develop or improve the skill to "mobilize people in support of his cause"? His cause is some quality award, either state or federal (MBNQA in the US). Ideas? Let's see if you are game.........:thanx:The Dale Carnegie leadership seminars have been very highly recommended to me. If a person is able to self-direct, (s)he could use a course like this one: http://www.nightingale.com/p.asp?ProductIDN=21110 If that person is not good at self direction, perhaps attending a course or seminar would be better.

The key thing is to acknowledge that there are no true constants to lay out like a recipe for achieving the touchy-feely MBNQA. Much depends on the organization's culture, which impacts the work forces' mood and responses to growth patterns inherent to the MBNQA process. I would never try to cross the Atlantic in a dingy. :rolleyes:

Randy

2nd August 2005, 09:17 AM

I did a couple of the Dale Carnegie things back in the 70's and they were pretty good. (of course I took them because the Chief thought I needed some re-fining and an attitude change :rolleyes: )

BTW my wife even like what Craig wrote. Good for ya Craig!

ccochran

2nd August 2005, 05:55 PM

Randy,

My secret desire is to write exclusively for the ladies, so I'm very gratified that your wife found the article interesting. If I can ever figure out how to write romance novels, that will be something I'll try. The only problem is my non-business writing is usually chock-full of tawdry sex and bad behavior. Hope all is well in Arkansas!

Craig

nickh

2nd August 2005, 07:17 PM

Hello, everybody:
I am very interested in knowing if something like this holds people's interests and is of value, or if I'm just crazy.

Short answer: Yes.

A lot of people like lessons that are drawn from analogies. It makes the material more interesting and digestible.

I'm remember seeing abook on this same subject a few years ago, so I Googled it: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=shakespeare+leadership. Looks like you're not alone - 664,000 hits for "Shakespeare Leadership".

One of my favorite management books was "What Would Machiavelli Do? The Ends Justify the Meanness" by Stanley Bing (who also wrote another one, "Sun Tzu Was a Sissy," that I've been meaning to pick up). It was a tongue-in-cheek book drawing parallels between (in)famous leaders and Machiavelli's "The Prince". It's a funny book, but the truth is I've worked for more than one person that had Machiavellian traits.

By the way, which was the one with the battle scene? Was that Henry V? That might be a good one for the next in your series.

nickh

2nd August 2005, 07:22 PM

My secret desire is to write exclusively for the ladies ... only problem is my non-business writing is usually chock-full of tawdry sex and bad behavior

Uh, I don't see the disconnect. Have you seen daytime soaps lately? Desperate Housewives? You could end up being very popular. ;-)

ccochran

3rd August 2005, 11:42 PM

Nickh,

I like your way of thinking! I need to start watching more TV (...or maybe not). Desperate housewives sound interesting. Any housewives that I come in contact with would probably be desperate to get their washing machines fixed or rid their kitchen of ants. But there's always the chance for something more titillating. Which is why I have recently purchased a pest control uniform and truck with a giant bug mounted on top. Give the ladies what they want...

Yes, I too was shocked to see someone had already beaten me to the Shakespeare/leadership punch. On Amazon.com, I saw "Power Plays: Shakespeare's Lessons in Leadership and Management." Oh, well. As you pointed out, every character from history, popular culture, and literature is fair game for a leadership lesson. What's left? "Leadership Lessons of Rocky the Flying Squirrel." Hey, I like the sound of it!

Henry V was the one with the grand battle scenes. The only part I didn't like was when they started cutting the throats of the French prisoners. Yes, they were French, but still...

Bien à toi,
Craig


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