I am a highly experienced Quality Practitioner and in possession of a strong background in the implementation of ISO 9000. I am also knowledgeable of ISO/TS 16949.

I have just moved to the aviation industry to implement ISO 9001 with a company involved with aircraft ground handling. Please assist with info regarding aeronautical regulations JAR145, JAR21G. I am particularly require info on JAR21G as I managed to get some sketchy info on JAR145.

Dumisani :o

This may not be the place to get that answer pardner. Why don't you try asking the organization that wrote the regulation?

AS9100B is a QMS specification that addresses regulations as an aspect of a management system and doesn't address any specific regulation.

Have you tried doing an internet search?

Randy

I know for fact that this forum addresses needs of AS9100 QMS specification, I have run out of options as to where I can get some detailed info on JAR21G regulation.I have tried searching the internet but I am not making any meaningful headway.

Given that I am new in the aviation industry, it is best that I equip myself with all related info so as to become a total allrounder. Any form of assistance will be appreciated.

Dumisani

I am a highly experienced Quality Practitioner and in possession of a strong background in the implementation of ISO 9000. I am also knowledgeable of ISO/TS 16949.

I have just moved to the aviation industry to implement ISO 9001 with a company involved with aircraft ground handling. Please assist with info regarding aeronautical regulations JAR145, JAR21G. I am particularly require info on JAR21G as I managed to get some sketchy info on JAR145.

Dumisani :oHi Dumisani and welcome to the Cove.

This is the place to get all kinds of information.

I was in the aviation industry for 10 years and am familiar with the US FARs especially FAR 21 and FAR 145. The JARs are the European Joint Aviation Authority (http://www.jaa.nl/index.html) equivalents to the US FARs. They even used a similar numbering scheme. We were a manufacturer of aircraft parts built under FAR 21 and operated a FAR 145 Repair station with an additional approval to JAR 145. The JAA (http://www.jaa.nl/jaa_easa/jaa_easa.html) has implemented a new scheme under The European Aviation Safety Authority (http://www.easa.eu.int/home/) (EASA). I believe the requirements probably remain the same and I'm fairly good at interpreting the regulations. Although I am no longer in the aviation industry, l will be glad to help you as much as I can. Follow the links I Provided, post your specific questions here for now and we can see where we will go.

Excellent, Al. I'm surprised you kept up. These are great references to start our guy off. There are a number of folks who visit the Cove who are involved in aviation. I think we can be a great help to Dumisani Zikhali.

It's important to note JAA and FAA have been very cooperative over time in streamlining their regulations to mesh so manufacturers can pretty much assure compliance with one if they are compliant with the other.

Excellent, Al. I'm surprised you kept up. These are great references to start our guy off. There are a number of folks who visit the Cove who are involved in aviation. I think we can be a great help to Dumisani Zikhali.

It's important to note JAA and FAA have been very cooperative over time in streamlining their regulations to mesh so manufacturers can pretty much assure compliance with one if they are compliant with the other.And you thought, I was just another pretty face.http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/laughbounce.gif

Randy

I know for fact that this forum addresses needs of AS9100 QMS specification, I have run out of options as to where I can get some detailed info on JAR21G regulation.I have tried searching the internet but I am not making any meaningful headway.

Given that I am new in the aviation industry, it is best that I equip myself with all related info so as to become a total allrounder. Any form of assistance will be appreciated.

Dumisani

Based upon your statements above I may be safe in saying that you apparently are a newbie to aviation and a total novice in aviation quality. I challenge you to show me where AS9100 mentions what you were originally asking about because I can't find it.

I on the other hand have about 25 years of aviation background of one type or another, have extensive QA/QC in aviation maintenance (to include tons of ground handling experience) and possess an A&P license through the US FAA, and I can't figure out what your rub is.

Based upon your statements above I may be safe in saying that you apparently are a newbie to aviation and a total novice in aviation quality. I challenge you to show me where AS9100 mentions what you were originally asking about because I can't find it.

I on the other hand have about 25 years of aviation background of one type or another, have extensive QA/QC in aviation maintenance (to include tons of ground handling experience) and possess an A&P license through the US FAA, and I can't figure out what your rub is.Randy, Dumasani stated he was a newbie to aviation. And, you're right, AS 9100 doesen't address Dumisani's subject, but where would you suggest he go for information, if not here? If the subject of his thread is in the wrong forum, what forum would you suggest? I think we can address this in a constructive manner to help someone who may not know his way around a subject as well as we do. (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7759) I think that's the purpose of these forum's. Don't you agree?

So we all have a calmer frame of mind as we get into the shank of the weekend - AS9100 (any version) is primarily concerned with manufacturing practices of either whole aircraft or parts.

FAA, JAA, and now the new umbrella organization (agency?), The European Aviation Safety Authority (EASA), are concerned with manufacturing AND with flight operations, including what happens on the ground.

It DOES seem natural, even to a persnickety old guy like me, that you might turn to guys who know about one aspect of aviation (AS9100) to be able to provide some insight into the other aspects, especially since there are not a lot of other active discussion groups about the topic which pop up on a google search.

Try (at google)

jaa +"ground operations"
jar +"ground operations"
jar +"ground operations" +discussion
jaa +"ground operations" +discussion

We may still be the best game around.

I have just moved to the aviation industry to implement ISO 9001 with a company involved with aircraft ground handling. Please assist with info regarding aeronautical regulations JAR145, JAR21G. I am particularly require info on JAR21G as I managed to get some sketchy info on JAR145.
Tell us PRECISELY what your organization does. "Involved" is not specific enough for me to help you. If you have a question about the specific regulations, cite the word, clause, sentence, or paragraph which confuses you and ask the question as completely as you can.

First: Do you have copies of these JAR regulations? If not, do you know where to get them or do we have to help you do that?

As I can tell from Randy's response, the lack of information in your original request can be irritating to some readers who rankle at being asked to read your mind.

I'm not rankled, but his expertness in quality should know that a quality standard doesn't address ground handling of aircraft!

Al, who is a bit more kind and than I was correct in where the information could be obtained. I have always been told the best place to find out about something was at its source. I did a Google for JAR 145 and got over 4000 hits like this one

JARs Section 1
... JAR-66, Certifying Staff Maintenance. JAR-145, Approved Maintenance Organisations.
JAR-147, Approved Maintenance Training/Examinations. JAR-APU, Auxiliary Power ...
http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jarsec1.html - 22k - Feb 4, 2005 - similar pages - add to favorites

Gotta be something in those 4000+ places.

Why not ask somebody in the company you work for?

Randy and Al

Thanks a lot to Al for giving me referrals to the appropriate website. I found a great deal of info on these regulations and I have quickly tried to understand and interpret thier meaning. At this stage it would appear that these regulations do not apply to my company, however, they have served as an eye opener, as to how complex this industry is.

The first time I heard about these regulations is when the Technical Manager of my company bragged about how complex this industry is during a management meeting and poor me I felt so out of touch of what he was reffering to, as I am new to industry, and, I have a task of certifying the company to ISO 9001. Not to be out done by him I immediately searched the internet(google) but I did not make any significant headway particularly on JAR21G. For a moment, I drew up similarities with ISO/TS 16949 and its applicable core tools i.e APQP, PPAP(PSO), and its additional Customer Specific Requirements, as I thought the indusrty is tailored to something of that sort.

Randy, my company operations include the following but are not limited to 1. Ground Power Supply to the aircraft. 2.Airstarter Unit 3. Pushback Equipment(Tug) and Ground Support Operations.

MANY THANKS to all of you who have read this thread and assisted me.

Hello everyone, im a bit of a johnny come lately but hopefully i can bring something to the aerospace forum

Im an aerospace (quality) engineer in scotland with a long exposure to regs and legs so hopefully i can give a european perspective to some of the questions

Ive noticed that people are focussing on AS9100 in here but really to operate anywhere its an add on to the EASA/FAA regulations

Dumisani , are you in europe? let me know im sure we can work something out Hope you al had a great Easter

Since you are new, hartley, you may not have noticed your I.D. at the top left of your post includes your geographic region if you choose to add it to your Profile. Hence:
Dumisani Zikhali (http://elsmar.com/Forums/member.php?u=12740)
Registered User
South Africa
Registration Date: Jan 2005
Randy (http://elsmar.com/Forums/member.php?u=371)
Forum Moderator
Greenwood (Ft Smith area), Arkansas, USA
Registration Date: Jun 1999
Al Rosen (http://elsmar.com/Forums/member.php?u=3579)
Forum Moderator
Lawn Guyland
Registration Date: Jun 2002 (I think Lawn Guyland is just down the road from Peter Pan's Neverland:rolleyes: )
Wes Bucey (http://elsmar.com/Forums/member.php?u=6229)
Quality Manager
Illinois
Registration Date: Sep 2003
hartley (http://elsmar.com/Forums/member.php?u=14539) Registered User
scotland
Registration Date: Apr 2005

Thanks for offering help and advice.

Hello Wes

Thanks for the info

Its 1 20 in the morning, im getting a little tired, the icons, images quotes etc that go with each message take a lot of getting used to

Im sure i wil get more accurate in the future

Regards

(I think Lawn Guyland is just down the road from Peter Pan's Neverland:rolleyes: )Actually, it's just east of New York City

Hello everyone, im a bit of a johnny come lately but hopefully i can bring something to the aerospace forum

Im an aerospace (quality) engineer in scotland with a long exposure to regs and legs so hopefully i can give a european perspective to some of the questions

Ive noticed that people are focussing on AS9100 in here but really to operate anywhere its an add on to the EASA/FAA regulations

Dumisani , are you in europe? let me know im sure we can work something out Hope you al had a great Easter
Hello,
I work at the aircraft maintenence base in Russia. Our metrological department is accredited by Gosstandart of Russia (it's Federal agency on technical regulating and metrology) and Civil aviation authority of Russia in accordance with the national rules and requirements, it's not exactly ISO17025-accreditation (it's my problem). But, we have working (reference) standards which are traceable to russian and european standards (All certifikates of calibrations of this equipment are assued by ISO17025-accredited laboratorys in Germany i.e. traceable), our technicians have personal certifikates from russian and european training centers,....i.e. formally (in fact) we carried out the requirements which is a part of requirements EASA, FAA for calibration of measuring and test equipments. I did not find directly that metrologycal laboratory must be ISO17025-accredited. What is your opinions on this?

sgribako, welcome to 'The Cove'! :bigwave:

Here is the FORUM Link to ISO 17025 - Calibration and Test Laboratories, Measurement and Gages (http://elsmar.com/Forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13). Post your question in this FORUM also. Between the two Forums(Calibration and Aerospace), you might expect other colleagues and professionals to offer their opinion.

Again, welcome to The Cove. :)