From Manoj Mathur I am attaching herewith the Gap analysis

1. Gap Analysis between QS 9000 and TS 16949
2. Gap Analysis between TS 16949 1999 and TS 16949:2002
3. Gap Analysis between VDA 6.1 and TS 16949

I hope this will full fill your requirement.

When are you going for ISO/TS 16949:2002?

Pl. reply whether you could open the document or not?

Regards,

Manoj Mathur

Please do not forget this excelant comparision posted here
standard comparison matrix.xls (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=52393&postcount=3) in this thread ISO9001:2000 vs. TS16949 vs. AS9100 - What are the Differences? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6442)
by howste

There are also several other comparisions - search the attachements

I have used the Comparison Matrices found here on the cove. They have been very useful. Has anyone done a comparison of VDA 6.1 and ISO/TS 16949:2002? I thought I would ask before I start one.:yes:

I do not think so.
Why do you need it?

Howard, Thanks for asking. I don't really need the TS vs VDA comparison for any particular requirement, but I know very little about VDA 6.1. We are a TS company who recently acquired a division of a german-based company (also TS). As a result, we now have some customers who are asking for new quality agreements and are sending us their requirements for contract review. Many of these customers have references to VDA throughout their requirements documents. Our position is that we are registered to TS and as such, do not recognize or adhere to VDA requirements. The company we acquired apparently has tried to continue to comply with many VDA requirements, even after they were TS registered. I have comparisons for ISO vs. TS / AS / Medical (many came from the Cove). They have proved quite useful in responding to inquiries concerning different standards.

The only thing I can suggest is VDA6.1 > TS 16949:1999>ISO/TS 16949:2002
or VDA 6.1> QS9000>ISO/TS 16949:2002

The main difference is in the management/financial section Z (if my memory serves me well)
The differences will be little except for the use of different forms for PPAP/ISR.
VDA managed to include the motivation and quality costs in TS.
Good luck

Hi Friends,
I would like to know if anybody has worked out the differences between TS16949:2002 v/s VDA 6.1?
If so, have you got a comparison matrix for the same.
It will be usefule for me, since my TS certified organization is due to a DCPA audit from DC. We would like to review our complaince and look for any gaps.

Babu

Hi Manoj,
Thanks for the information, yes I open the attachments.
We are going for TS 16949 in November, I have included TS, ISO 14001 & ISO 18001 into our manual, but the auditor from INternational Cert has indicated that they all must be in seprate manuals, and that all the flow charts that we have put in the manual are not to TS it must be the long way of writing each procedure have you had the same request from your auditing body?
Regards
Ian

Hi Manoj,
Thanks for the information, yes I open the attachments.
We are going for TS 16949 in November, I have included TS, ISO 14001 & ISO 18001 into our manual, but the auditor from INternational Cert has indicated that they all must be in seprate manuals, and that all the flow charts that we have put in the manual are not to TS it must be the long way of writing each procedure have you had the same request from your auditing body?
Regards
Ian

Ian,

Ask your Certification Body for the requirement that states that you can not combine Quality Manuals.

There is no requirement that states that you can not do this.
I have a suspicion that the auditor is looking for ways to make her/his job easy....;)

Keep us posted.

Stijloor.

I've never heard of a requirement that required individual manuals for individual standards. Heck, if memory serves...and it may not as it is a long weekend here...ISO 14001 doesn't even really have a stated requirement for a top level manual.

Whatever the auditor's reason(s) is/are behind that request, I would ask for the requirement for individuality to pointed out to you.

Otherwise, it's your organization's system...documentation...culture. It's about making the requirements conform to your organization...not the other way around (legal and regulatory requirements being the exception).

For my site, I developed a Business Management System manual that integrated the requirements for ISO 9001, ISO 14001, OHSAS 18001, ISRS, Sarbanes-Oxley and the requirements from our own business processes.

As the ISO 9001 management representative, my responsibility was to ensure that the auditor remained within the scope of the audit and didn't go wandering off into those areas...unless we wanted her to... :notme:

Hi Manoj,
Thanks for the input about combinding all three ISO's into one manual, I will take this up with him, he said that the way I have put the manual together will not pass the next audit, he wants to sell us a program that will cover all the requirements of TS, could you just give me an example of what I should have in the manual.
Regards
Ian

Hi R.C. Beyette,
Thanks for the input about combinding all three ISO's into one manual, I will take this up with him, he said that the way I have put the manual together will not pass the next audit, he wants to sell us a program that will cover all the requirements of TS, could you just give me an example of what I should have in the manual.
Regards
Ian

Hi R.C. Beyette,
Thanks for the input about combinding all three ISO's into one manual, I will take this up with him, he said that the way I have put the manual together will not pass the next audit, he wants to sell us a program that will cover all the requirements of TS, could you just give me an example of what I should have in the manual.
Regards
Ian

I am not an expert on the requirements of TS16949, but what ever the standard says you should have...well, you should have. :)

What I did was develop my own matrix showing the alignment between all of the standards that I combined into one manual. For example, if you have a copy of ISO 9001 or ISO 14001, go to the back of the standard. In one of the Appendices, you'll find a matrix showing how ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 align.

Taking a similar approach, I added in the requirements from other standards that were applicable to my organization's processes.

R.C. Beyette,
Thanks I did use the requirements at the back of the standards to develop my index

Regards
Ian Pearce

Hi Everyone,

I was going through with the threads and attachment, however I was not able to see any matrix comparison between VDA 6.3(automobile standard) against TS 16949 standard :frust:. I am sorry if I have overlooked but would be glad if you can help and let me understand :D. I am currently working to integrate an automobile standard into the TS standard so as to simplify the requirements. Appreciate any help in advance. :thanx:

Welcome to the cove
VDA 6.3 is a standard for process audit and not a management standard.
The VDA 6.1 is the equivalent of ISO/TS 16949

Howard,

Thanks. Everything now makes sense.:agree:

Howard,

Thanks and I appreciate your response. I was thinking further :( that if VDA6.3 is a standard for process audit, then I can consolidate it together with the TS16949 audit checklist instead under the process audit category 8.2.2: Internal Audit ? From what I perceive, both are now standards in the process audit. What do you think ? :bonk:

If this is a true, let me know if you have any comparison matrix to both TS16949 checklist against VDQ6.3 checklist ? :thanks:

Thanks,
boy.greenfingers

Howard,

Thanks and I appreciate your response. I was thinking further :( that if VDA6.3 is a standard for process audit, then I can consolidate it together with the TS16949 audit checklist instead under the process audit category 8.2.2: Internal Audit ? From what I perceive, both are now standards in the process audit. What do you think ? :bonk:

If this is a true, let me know if you have any comparison matrix to both TS16949 checklist against VDQ6.3 checklist ? :thanks:

Thanks,
boy.greenfingers

The audit required by ISO9001 is as follows:

8.2.2 The organization shall conduct internal audits at planned intervals to determine whether the quality management system
a) conforms to the planned arrangements (see 7.1), to the requirements of this International Standard and to the quality management system requirements established by the organization, and
b) is effectively implemented and maintained.

Further to that ISO/TS requires:
8.2.2.1 Quality management system audit
The organization shall audit its quality management system to verify compliance with this Technical Specification and any additional quality management system requirements.

Thus we need to add to 8.2.2 the extra requirements of TS and any customer specific requirements.

8.2.2.2 Manufacturing process audit
The organization shall audit each manufacturing process to determine its effectiveness.
This is an area of contention, as it stands it does not in fact say how the manufacturing process shall be audited. Some understand this as a control plan audit, some more on the lines of VDA 6.3 (See Process Audits and Layered Process Audits (http://elsmar.com/Forums/forumdisplay.php?f=118) for more discussions.

8.2.2.3 Product audit
The organization shall audit products at appropriate stages of production and delivery to verify conformity to all specified equirements, such as product dimensions, functionality, packaging and labelling, at a defined frequency.
Search the forums for more comments on this aspect


The standard also requires
8.2.2.4 NOTE Specific checklists should be used for each audit.


The requirement of ISO/TS for process based audits only appears in the rules 3rd edition

5.8 Conducting on site audit activities
Each onsite audit (stage 2, surveillance, and recertification) shall include at least the following:
i) process based internal auditing

Please can someone point me to any other references.:thanks:


From what I perceive, both are now standards in the process audit. What do you think ? :bonk:
From what I have said above unless your customer specifically requests you to audit to VDA 6.3 then the requirements are not the same.
I do not believe that you have to show the relationship between every clause and the checklist, should be there as an aide-mémoire rather than a rigid framework