I am starting a new thread for discussion despite the fact that there have been a number of similar threads as during my postings here ISO/TS 16949 certificability - Design Center - No Production (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=11310)

and also a similar case that I have become involved with I think that there is an unclear situation that I would like us to give some thought.

References:
Clause 4.1 - What qualifies as an outsourced process? What controls are required? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7888)
Exclusion vs. Outsourcing? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7487)
Outsourcing <--> Purchasing (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4576)
Outsourced processes - Same company, different location (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6602)
Transportation Outsourcing or support service? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5176)
ISO reference document
N630 - Guidance on Outsourced Processes (http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/3553354/Outsourced.doc?func=doc.Fetch&nodeid=3553354)

From all the discussions the question whether you outsource or purchase appears to be in the hands of the company to decide depending on their vocabulary and the type of service.
The controls needed on the supplier as an outsourcer or as a vendor are essentially the same, request for PPAP approval from both cases, supplier/outsource approval etc.
In ISO/TS a non manufacturer cannot be registered.
If he designs a product and then purchase this product built according to his production file. He approves PPAP and then has in his hand a product to sell that is his, in a proprietary manner but he did not produce.
Is this outsourcing or purchase.
If it is outsourcing then it could be claimed that he can be registered as he has "outsourced his production but it is part of his process.
If it is purchase then he can be registered to ISO9001 only.

Has anyone got more specific information, what do you think :confused:

Excellent summary and links to existing discussion threads! Thanks, Howard! It's appreciated!

Hello All:

This does not answer all of the questions but it may allow people to think about this issue further.

My organizaiton has 4 facitlities worldwide. Each has its own TS certified QMS. Outsourcing must be viewed in terms of the scope of the registered QMS. This is important. For each of our facilities, many processes are outsourced. One facitiy is HQ. All design and purchasing is done at HQ. Testing is done in the Singapore facility. Assembly is done in the Penang facitlity. Fabrication is done at HQ and in the Washington facility.

From each QMS standpoint, many processes are outsourced. There are no purchase orders for these outsourced processes. We are all part of the same company but have different QMS scopes. Therefore, the outsourcing has nothing to do with purchasing and purchase orders. Yes, in most cases outsourcing is the same as purchasing a service. But not always.

Exclusing are things that the organization is not responsible for. Exclusions are things that simply are not part of the business scheme. Outsourced proceeses are still the responsibility of the outsourcer.

Regards, Dirk