Guys and Gals,
Any one have any idea on how to audit resource managemnt. Currently we did one by just translating all the reuirements into questions, but we were told that this was not good enough and we have to use the "octopus" or "turtle diagram"

Need ideas fast!!

Thanks in anticipation

Guys and Gals,
Any one have any idea on how to audit resource managemnt. Currently we did one by just translating all the reuirements into questions, but we were told that this was not good enough and we have to use the "octopus" or "turtle diagram"

Need ideas fast!!

Thanks in anticipation
Can you help us with a little more information? WHO told you the concept of making the requirements into questions and then [presumably] asking and answering the questions as you do internal audits and management reviews of your organization was "not good enough?"

I guess what they are talking about is something several of our Cove members are quite expert in: Process Approach Analysis - particularly as laid out in TS16949. The simple fact is no one can force your organization to do something in exactly one style. Here's an excerpt from the AIAG TS16949:2002 Implementation Guide (p 176):
Key Considerations: There are many different ways to do process mapping and it is up to each organization to determine the appropriate method for their organization and QMS. If graphical flowcharts are used, it is recommended that a standard symbolism be used. It is recommended that organizations define a standard set of symbols to be used by the organization in all process maps. This will ensure that everyone can understand the process maps created throughout the organization. The nature of the process itself may help determine which process mapping methodology is best.

Processes can be defined by a series of procedures, which together meet all the requirements of having all attributes of a process.

In my opinion, IF you can demonstrate that your use of QUESTIONS in a systematic manner gives your organization a PROCESS to follow in managing its resources as it makes products or provides services, then the person or persons who told you you need to use an octopus or turtle diagram needs to cite you chapter and verse in TS16949 or the contract between you and customer which specifies you SHALL or MUST use such a diagram.

That said, Octopus and Turtle Diagrams are rational methods to show the relationships between the "legs" of a process with each other. It might benefit your organization to use such diagrams in mapping your processes and how they relate to each other.

We have several threads here in the Cove about such Diagrams and you can use the search function to find them.

Athies

I moved your posting to this thread from the "FMEA and Control Plan" thread as I think you will get more responses here.

As Wes says - there is no requirement for turtle or octopus diagrams.

I tend to audit by business process, and will pick up elements relating to resource management as I go - I dont audit this seperately across the business in one audit.

I.e. if I am in design I look at all the usual design activity and records, but also look at where and how competency is determined, how personnel are evaluated and how training is recorded, also look at the work environment and the facilities and infrastructure, e.g. if on the day of the audit you find numerous ECN's waiting action but the printer is broken and has been for a fortnight, hence they cannot print them off and action them - you might raise a corrective action on resource management for example.

Hello Athies, and welcome to the Cove :bigwave: I tend to audit by business process, and will pick up elements relating to resource management as I go - I dont audit this seperately across the business in one audit.Likewise. Simply put, I try to find out whether people have the means they need to be able do their jobs or not.

The entire chapter 6 in ISO 9004:2000 provides pretty good guidance.

/Claes

I also audit various requirements by process; however, I perform the resource management audit very last. I have attached some notes taken from my last audit - maybe they will be of some help.

I have attached a copy of my audit worksheet that I am using for auditing Resource Management/Training.

Maggie