After commenting in another thread about a remarkable document which gives many worthy tips about hiring a management consultant (and by "reverse engineering" - how to make yourself a "hire-able" consultant"), I was saddened to learn the institute no longer provides this document for free
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Thus said, I can use excerpts for "educational purposes" without violating copyright laws.

Here's the first "pearl"

3. How Can I Tell If I Need a Consultant?
There are no hard and fast rules for deciding to bring in a management consultant. Common situations suggesting that a consultant may provide help include:

Management believes that performance could be better but is not sure what to do to gain improvements.
Management does not have the specific knowledge and skills necessary to solve the problems it has identified.
Management has the necessary knowledge and skills but not the time or personnel to solve problems.
Management’s efforts have not produced the desired long-term improvements.
Management requires an independent, third party opinion, either to confirm a decision or to provide alternatives.
Often a situation will require that a consultant be retained until in-house capabilities are enhanced by a permanent staff addition.
So, whichever side (management or consultant) you find yourself, you need to look at these points and make a decision. If you are the consultant, you have to identify these points to tailor your pitch on how YOU can provide a solution to the FIRST hurdle - deciding whether an organization needs a consultant. Sometimes we serve the clients best by telling them when they do NOT need the services of a consultant.

The next step:[emphasis mine]4. How Do I Determine What Needs to Be Changed?
At times, you will be able to specify the issue, such as a puzzling increase in workplace injuries. Often, however, this will not be possible. In such cases, listing symptoms or desired goals will usually indicate the type of consultant you need.

Be aware, though, that often a consultant’s largest contribution is to help clients define problems or opportunities. Your initial conversation with a consultant should tell you if your problem has been properly defined.

This is one of the often omitted steps in selling consultant services - the point that the consultant can HELP recognize and subsequently DEFINE the problems facing an organization. How many have you have faced a clueless top management?

So - tell us which side of the equation you are coming from (consultant or employer) and tell us YOUR comments about hiring (or being hired) as a consultant.

From the consultant point of view:

I am typically asked to visit a company so the management team can bounce ideas off me, or to take a look at what the "problems" are from someone outside the company (and who is not a customer!). In QMS language, we call this an audit or a gap analysis. I always make a point to recognize the positive things the client is doing. It isn't hard, because most companies are doing lots of things well.

I spend a lot of time asking questions and listening to answers. I make sure I have the knowledge of their processes before I start spouting off advice. I will make recommendations, but it is ultimately up to the company if they want to follow the recommendations or not. I think this is where Wes noted that the consultant is often the most valuable at better defining the issues at hand. I don't think that the management is often clueless, I think they are too close to the issues to be able to step back and think clearly. Remember the old saying about the forest and the trees?

So, if I were to hire a consultant, I would want someone who was willing to take time to learn about my company, and not just walk in the door with a canned approach. As a manager/owner of that company, I would feel that my company was unique and special, and I would want the consultant to show me how to piggyback or benchmark some other success story to help my company improve.

There is a very easy way to hire a consultant, and get the results you expect....hire me!

There is a very easy way to hire a consultant, and get the results you expect....hire me!

Be careful what you wish for--some people expect to be disappointed:D .

Be careful what you wish for--some people expect to be disappointed:D .

I don't think so....if you hire me, you would get the results you would expect if you hired me....I mean after all, how high can your expectation be if you are hiring me?! :mg:

I mean after all, how high can your expectation be if you are hiring me?! :mg:

Don't sell yourself short. With the rates MMTC charges I would have the highest of expectations. No doubt you are a fine consultant though.

Well, not exactly the direction I was expecting for this thread, but you raise interesting points:

How does the would-be employer form his expectations?
What should a consultant do in his advertising/promotion to create an expectation in the mind of a prospective client which the consultant can meet or exceed?
Does (or should) a consultant try to counter far-fetched promises of other consultants ("guaranteed registration in 40 days")?
How do we counter unrealistic expectations in the minds of clients?
What is fair and reasonable advertising of a consultant's service?

Well, not exactly the direction I was expecting for this thread, but you raise interesting points:

How does the would-be employer form his expectations?
What should a consultant do in his advertising/promotion to create an expectation in the mind of a prospective client which the consultant can meet or exceed?
Does (or should) a consultant try to counter far-fetched promises of other consultants ("guaranteed registration in 40 days")?
How do we counter unrealistic expectations in the minds of clients?
What is fair and reasonable advertising of a consultant's service?


Wes:

I'll repost part of my answer from before to get the thread on your track again:

(1) Expectations forming: So, if I were to hire a consultant, I would want someone who was willing to take time to learn about my company, and not just walk in the door with a canned approach. As a manager/owner of that company, I would feel that my company was unique and special, and I would want the consultant to show me how to piggyback or benchmark some other success story to help my company improve. JMHO, but I do think owners of smaller businesses think their businesses are unique, and should be treated as such.
(2) Advertising: I think the advertising needs to highlight the background, knowledge, training of the consultant to assure the company that he what it takes to be considered. There should be no guarantees.
(3) counter unrealistic expectations: now that's a tough one. I think the client has to trust you in order to believe you about the unrealistic expectations he has set. So, you need time to build that relationship, or you need to come to the business by referral -- sometimes the referrer can knock down that barrier for you, and you will be trusted right away.
(4) fair and reasonable: there should be no guarantees. Otherwise, I think it's OK to advertise anywhere at any time. Heck, 150 ft billboard in Times Square, if it will make the phone ring!

--QG

I'm not upset at the direction change - just interested. The point of a Forum is to bring out enough views to be able to make up one's own mind about what to do.

How to Hire a Management Consultant and Get the Results You Expect. Interseting. Leads me to somewhat confusion. I worked for a company that had several of us trained as TQM Facilitators.
My first assignment with the TQM process was where upper managment "gave" us the solution and wanted the TQM process to support it.
Strangely enough the way it worked is that the TQM process did not support the Upper Management's pre-planned decision. So they disbanded us, attempted another in-house group - disbanded them. At that point, I got to witness how an outside consultant group could slant the TQM process to get the desired results.
So it has also seemed to me that if you know the desired outcome or expectation, why do you need a consultant?
Once one understands the company and it current direction, shouldn't the consultant assist in a positive result, regardless of the expectation?
Or am I being a bit too senstive to the Title?

Is it more like, if your expectation is for your cmpany and its culture to embrace the ISO QS, How do you select a Consultant that can couch you through this process that leads to it actually becoming p[art of the culture?

Disclosure: I am in the consulting business.

Clients buy knowledge when they hire a consultant. This is derived from experience and from continuous updating of personal knowledge by the consultant.

How to hire a consultant: once the determination of need etc has been done, as eloquently suggested in other posts by our qualitygoddess , look for experience. Then to paraphrase the realtors: reputation; reputation; reputation. Then look for experience. And above all remember the old adage: you gets what you pays for.
And especially, look for experience.

Disclosure: I am in the consulting business.

Clients buy knowledge when they hire a consultant. This is derived from experience and from continuous updating of personal knowledge by the consultant.

How to hire a consultant: once the determination of need etc has been done, as eloquently suggested in other posts by our qualitygoddess , look for experience. Then to paraphrase the realtors: reputation; reputation; reputation. Then look for experience. And above all remember the old adage: you gets what you pays for.
And especially, look for experience.
Besides Allan's disclosure he is a consultant, remember his experience!
Since he is older than I, he must certainly have more experience in life, love, and war! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The point is - Allan has real, demonstrable experience which has helped him grow in knowledge and ability to transfer that knowledge into meaningful advice through personal consulting and the books he writes.

Other folks, who are merely "pretenders" to experience, claim "25 years of experience" - but the reality for them is it's the same year of experience repeated 25 times, because they are in a rut and learn nothing new from their experience and therefore have nothing to transfer to a client.

Wes is being most kind in his remarks.

But on a more serious note most of the Covers would admit that "consultants" have gained a poor reputation over the last 10 - 15 years. Consulting has become almost a dirty word. The reason is fairly obvious. Too many people hung out their shingle after being downsized. While I would not dispute they have some knowledge and ability, the fact remains many were unsuited to consulting and did not deliver a quality service to their clients. They were more interested in fees than "service". (And one must remember downsizing is often an exercise whereby firms relieve themselves of the deadwood, and elements of the non-productive "duh" brigade.)

As a result fine consultants became tarred by association. That is a shame because it has led quite a few companies to refrain from engaging a consultant afraid of being ripped off.

Moreover, many use consultants in the wrong way - especially for introducing their quality programs et al. As a result they do not get the value for money they should.

A professional consultant will work with the client to create the proper balance of services that suits the client's circumstances. Good client's want the experienced-based knowledge possessed by the consultant but they also want to be able to do things for themselves. They want to be "hands-on" during the assignment. And this is where experience does come through.

Too many of thoe who entered the consulting business believe they can sell services based on stolen, plagiarised material they photocopied or downloaded from their former employers or their suppliers or elsewhere. They then think all that is needed is astute use of word processing software or spreadsheets can create customized material for the client. But, in not having actually developed the stuff they tend not to be able to explain to clienst the underlying reasoning for what is being done and they cannot provide the type of assistance/ tutoring the client needs for that "hands-on" part of the work. Clients are not stupid and eventually they suspect the truth. They may well pay off the "consultant" early and lick their wounds. Then "consultants" as a group are branded as charlatans and the reputation spreads.

We do not always succeed. Indeed, I recall another thread sometime last year in which I stated I have screwed up on a couple of assignments over the years. But, thankfully, my batting average is not too bad. Consultants are human (believe it or not!) but good ones do try to act professionally in exercising their brief.

I have no idea how many quality programs and attempts at introducing "ISO 9K" etc have been less than successful because of poor consulkting delivered by the type of shingle charlatan I have described but I would not be surprised if the number is large and it, too, has contributed to the perceived failure of "ISO 9K" programs. It is exasperating to still see adverts for cheap CDs and so forth that will provide the Q. Prog/ create all the docs you need/ build an instant audit program and so forth all fully compliant "with the standard". You can guess what I think of their purveyors.

The reason is fairly obvious. Too many people hung out their shingle after being downsized. While I would not dispute they have some knowledge and ability, the fact remains many were unsuited to consulting and did not deliver a quality service to their clients. They were more interested in fees than "service". (And one must remember downsizing is often an exercise whereby firms relieve themselves of the deadwood, and elements of the non-productive "duh" brigade.)

While it's probably true that much of the glut was due to downsizing, it's important to remember a couple of things: Downsizing in general is more a function of poor management and planning than it is a result of poor economic conditions. Another popular euphemism for mass layoffs is "rightsizing" and if rightsizing is necessary today, it means that the company was "wrongsized" yesterday. I think the "duh brigade" remark is ill-advised and insensitive to the point where I hesitate to dignify it with a response, but suffice it to say that a lot of laid-off people are perfectly capable and competent but suffer from having too much experience and making too much money. Layoffs are a function, in general, of arbitrarily cutting salary expense.

As a result fine consultants became tarred by association. That is a shame because it has led quite a few companies to refrain from engaging a consultant afraid of being ripped off.
Name another trade or profession where this is not the case. Remember, the people who hire incompetent consultants must bear some of the responsibility. A little checking of references can go a long way in this regard. In many cases, I suspect that people who hire consultants suffer from the same myopia that caused them to need a consultant in the first place. Consultants with less experience are likely to come cheaper than ones with a good track record, after all.

Good client's want the experienced-based knowledge possessed by the consultant but they also want to be able to do things for themselves. They want to be "hands-on" during the assignment. And this is where experience does come through.

And then there are the companies that don't need consultants, because they make a practice of hiring knowledgeable, experienced people. I think that there are times when the services of a a consultant are a prudent investment, but too often executives believe that the short-term expense of a consultant is a viable substitute for their own ignorance and refusal to pay reasonable wages to competent employees.

Clients are not stupid and eventually they suspect the truth. They may well pay off the "consultant" early and lick their wounds. Then "consultants" as a group are branded as charlatans and the reputation spreads.
Sorry, but the fact that a company hires an incompetent, plagiarizing consultant is strong evidence that someone isn't very bright. Sounds like a company that needs to get rid of some of the "non-productive 'duh' brigade."

It is exasperating to still see adverts for cheap CDs and so forth that will provide the Q. Prog/ create all the docs you need/ build an instant audit program and so forth all fully compliant "with the standard". You can guess what I think of their purveyors.

You know what I think of the purveyors? I think they're opportunistic entrepreneurs who've found a ready market in companies that refuse to invest in their own intellectual resources and think that a quality system can be bought off the shelf like office supplies. It's the American way of doing business.

Valid points from both Allan and JSW, both of which are essentially replaying the first "checklist" I posted (especially the last three in blue):
3. How Can I Tell If I Need a Consultant?
There are no hard and fast rules for deciding to bring in a management consultant. Common situations suggesting that a consultant may provide help include:

Management believes that performance could be better but is not sure what to do to gain improvements.
Management does not have the specific knowledge and skills necessary to solve the problems it has identified.
Management has the necessary knowledge and skills but not the time or personnel to solve problems.
Management’s efforts have not produced the desired long-term improvements.
Management requires an independent, third party opinion, either to confirm a decision or to provide alternatives.
Often a situation will require that a consultant be retained until in-house capabilities are enhanced by a permanent staff addition.
Frankly, if the folks who hire consultants or advisors were to pay attention to the numerous lists and checklists like the one reproduced here BEFORE hiring a consultant, all the points in Allan's tract about incompetents and "never were" guys posing as consultants would be moot, since they wouldn't be hired in the first place.

Even if the incompetents do manage to slip through the screening process, is there any benefit to bemoaning their presence? If you get a bad meal at one restaurant, do you stop going to ALL restaurants? Probably not. What most intelligent people do is pay a little more attention before ordering a meal at the next restaurant - is it clean? are the wait staff attentive? do other patrons seem to be enjoying themselves?

So, too, with employing consultants or advisors. Personally, I'd rather deal with a cautious and suspicious client than a gullible one. It makes both of us work harder to achieve a satisfactory result.

Personally, I'd rather deal with a cautious and suspicious client than a gullible one. It makes both of us work harder to achieve a satisfactory result.

Amen to that.

The next step:[emphasis mine]
This is one of the often omitted steps in selling consultant services - the point that the consultant can HELP recognize and subsequently DEFINE the problems facing an organization. How many have you have faced a clueless top management?



I would like to explore the "ethics" of a consultant, when and if the person runs into "clueless" top management. Not having the breadth of experience of our other consultant posters, I default to what my Mama told me -- "if it seems to good to be true, it probably is", and "do the best job that you can do".

I have run into top management that certainly has not understood what it will take to put ISO 9001 (for example) into place. If we want to say that they are clueless, OK for the sake of the argument. I think consultants have an ethical responsibility to tell the client if he is being unreasonable, or does not understand what it is going to take to complete the task/project/program. I feel so strongly about this, that I tell the client that he may discontinue my services at any time. In turn, I may also walk away from the client at any time. There's some legal mumbo-jumbo to protect us all, but the basic plan is that our agreement is not long-term.

I also expect them to outgrow my usefulness. If not, I have not done my job. I might set up a sub-system, do some training, help them hire the right person for the job. Who knows. It changes with each assignment. I spend a lot of time with the top management, making sure they have control of the project at all times. After all, it's not my company, it's theirs.

What do others think about the ethics?

--QG

I would like to explore the "ethics" of a consultant, when and if the person runs into "clueless" top management. Not having the breadth of experience of our other consultant posters, I default to what my Mama told me -- "if it seems to good to be true, it probably is", and "do the best job that you can do".

I have run into top management that certainly has not understood what it will take to put ISO 9001 (for example) into place. If we want to say that they are clueless, OK for the sake of the argument. I think consultants have an ethical responsibility to tell the client if he is being unreasonable, or does not understand what it is going to take to complete the task/project/program. I feel so strongly about this, that I tell the client that he may discontinue my services at any time. In turn, I may also walk away from the client at any time. There's some legal mumbo-jumbo to protect us all, but the basic plan is that our agreement is not long-term.

I also expect them to outgrow my usefulness. If not, I have not done my job. I might set up a sub-system, do some training, help them hire the right person for the job. Who knows. It changes with each assignment. I spend a lot of time with the top management, making sure they have control of the project at all times. After all, it's not my company, it's theirs.

What do others think about the ethics?

--QG
Absolutely, Jodi!

A correspondent of mine, Akio Miura of Tokyo, Japan, is a Fellow of ASQ and one of the really top-notch independent Quality consultants in Japan. He often is a lot more brusque than many of our colleagues might be. His position is that "the truth shall set you free!" He has no compunction about telling the top management folk they are unreasonable or unrealistic in their expectations and demands. He also tells them that when he does his job correctly, the only reason they may need or want to come back to him is for confirmation they are on the right track.

When I advise or consult, I make a distinction between the two terms. Some other folk don't. In my lexicon, "advising" is helping you learn how to do it yourself. "Consulting" is part advising, part doing some "grunt work" for the client. The point being the Consultant advises the client on which "grunt work" NEEDS to be done.

"Contracting" is strictly doing the grunt work as described by the client, and is not part of advising or consulting. Consultants may hire contractors to do grunt work. Contractors may have special expertise that helps them do the work more efficiently (computer geeks, for example), but they do not help the client determine whether the work NEEDS to be performed. A general contractor for building a house takes care of all the nitty gritty details, but he doesn't advise the owner to build one in the first place - he just does the "grunt work." The Architect may be serving as Advisor and Consultant and may hire the contractor on the owner's behalf.

I think this might be an appropriate thread for the following information, though maybe it should go under the auditor/registrar thread. I just looked at my weekly "Quality Insider" announcement from Quality Digest. In it is an announcement for new offices for QMI. In the announcement, they mention that one of rhe employees has over 20 years of experience in management, accreditation and certification of manufacturing & distribution systems.

Fine & good - more experience is often good. It goes on to say that "He has designed and implemented ISO 9001 and QS-9000 systems for more than 1,000 sites throughout the United States, Canada and Mexico."

Let's see, more than 20 years experience - let me guestimate 25 years of experience & rahter than more than 1000, let's work with just 1000. Then, 1000 systems divided by 25=40 systems/year. 52 weeks/year divided by 40 systems/year = 1.3 weeks per system.

I'm skeptical that a fully functioning quality system was designed and implemented in an average of 1.3 weeks of time - even if the individual was a consultant and that was the time provided by him to an organization. I've been through design and implementation of a quality system (plus 2 upgrades in systems) with 3 companies. 1.3 weeks doesn't begin to cover the time any of the implementers put in getting those systems up and running. Company size varied from 165 employees to 650 employees, to 2600 employees.

This sort of hyperbole is in my opinion bad for both consulting and registrars.

Let's see, more than 20 years experience - let me guestimate 25 years of experience & rahter than more than 1000, let's work with just 1000. Then, 1000 systems divided by 25=40 systems/year. 52 weeks/year divided by 40 systems/year = 1.3 weeks per system.

.

I am highly impressed that someone could work unstintingly 52 weeks a year for 25 years taking no break for Xmas or vacations. I wonder what does his family think of such dedication? Does this individual wear his undershorts outside of his pantyhose, a cape and a T shirt with a large letter "S" emblazoned on it? Does the article sport a picture of the person?

Perhaps he worked with more than one company at a time.

Perhaps he worked with more than one company at a time.
"worked over..." would be more accurate, I suspect:eek: .

Either way - that's 8 days. Maybe several were 1 day training stints or something, but to be a 'consultant' to ISO and esp QS would typically be more that 8 days. I'm working with 5 clients right now - some registered and on a 'maintenance plan' and some in the early stages of registration.

It's a stretch at best that they thought no one would question - but not here at the cove!!