Can anyone give some explanation and samples of the report for conducting product audit. Meaning how do I go about it? Our company is the manufacturer of automotive battery. In TS we need to do product audit. from where shall we start the product audit.

please advice.

thanks

There is no specific report for a product audit. You can use whatever form you like. An audit should look at one specific job or product and follow it from start to finish. Choose one job, get the work instruction and follow it through every step of your system to determine if the planned process is being followed and the requirements/expectations of the process are being met. the audit should cover all steps of the process from receiving raw material through delivery to the customer.

Another variation is to start from the other end (reverse product audit). Get the documented paperwork for a specific lot and work backwards through the system to determine everything had been done and all requirements had been met and documented.

Hope this helps get you started.

Dave

Under TS Internal (product) audit - who should conduct this audit??

The QA guys or a separate internal auditors????

To complete the explanation above, I add some other points. Please prepare the procedure to conduct product audit to explain at which production and delivery stages product audit should be done and their frequency. Establish annual Audit plan and appoint qualified auditor (independent personnel) to do the audit. Ensure what requirements sould be the product fulfilled by each process.

Hisar

To complete the explanation above, I add some other points. Please prepare the procedure to conduct product audit to explain at which production and delivery stages product audit should be done and their frequency. Establish annual Audit plan and appoint qualified auditor (independent personnel) to do the audit. Ensure what requirements sould be the product fulfilled by each process.

Good points for your internal audit plan but I wouldn't limit product audits to the planned internal audit program. I would consider these audits to be supplemental to the normal audit schedule. They can be done by the plant/function/department who is in charge of the product to confirm the process is still robust and delivering the expected results. I also wouldn't limit the auditors to "independent" auditors. True, they shouldn't audit their OWN work but people who work in the department certainly understand the process and have a good understanding of the normal product flow.

Product audits are often done in addition to the annual internal audits and are scheduled at the discretion of the department or by need established through customer complaints or C/I. These audits are often a part of a "layered audit" program.

Dave

Can anyone give some explanation and samples of the report for conducting product audit. Meaning how do I go about it? Our company is the manufacturer of automotive battery. In TS we need to do product audit. from where shall we start the product audit.

please advice.

thanks
-----------------------------------
A good guidance can be found in VDA 6.5 - Product audit

Best regards and success,

Antoine

For a product audit, we walk the control plan. My preference is to walk it backwards starting with a couple of containers on the shipping dock and tracing through the process back to incoming material used in production.

For a product audit, we walk the control plan. My preference is to walk it backwards starting with a couple of containers on the shipping dock and tracing through the process back to incoming material used in production.

Just out of curiousity, why the preference for backwards?

One reason some people prefer the backwards audit is time limitations. When doing a reverse audit, the test documentation and inspection results are already there so you don't have to wait. I would also be interested in why it is Valeri's preference.

IMO, the forward audit allows a better look at how the process actually works because you follow the part through.

Dave

Yes, the records (including gages, PMs, operator instructions/reactions, testing, set-ups, maintenance issues, etc.) are there (usually) and the operators explain their process. When auditing the system, I don't have the luxury of waiting for parts to be produced; I use the control plan identified in the planning/process design audit and walk it backwards.

Additionally, all plants perform layered audits on every process to make sure it actually works the way it's supposed to. This is where we find the majority of issues - some are systemic - most are not.

When I'm called into a plant to do a product audit, I audit the control plan forward after reviewing the process flow, FMEA, customer requirements and drawings. The longest (worst?) product audit I performed lasted 2 days for each audit. :( You can imagine the results.

For a product audit, we walk the control plan. My preference is to walk it backwards starting with a couple of containers on the shipping dock and tracing through the process back to incoming material used in production.
Good Morning! Our product audit was also based on the control plan and any other required inspection and measurements that would confirm that our product meets customer requirements. Having said that, our registrar issued us a nonconformance for conducting "Inadequate" product audits. He based this rational on ISO/TS 16949:2002 (8.2.2.3) THe organization shall audit products......to verify conformity to ALL specified requirements..Bla..Bla..Bla.
Anyway, what he said was that the control plan did not identify ALL the product specifications as called out on the print, contract, PPAP requirements etc. In his opinion only a "Re- PPAP" of the product would confirm ALL requirements had been met (or not met). We have developed a "Product Audit" form for each of our 3 OEM customers. I will attach them. However I don't suggest this is what is required. I'm my UN-professional opinion, this way over kill and not what was intended. Please let me know if there are some other interpritations floating around.
Thank you:
Respectfully:
Ragnar

I tend to agree that the product audit is a separate action and should check the product and not the process which is reflected in the control plan.
The difference is to take a part and physically check it rather than check the production process.

There is a connection between the dock audit of QS and the product audit of TS and European customers are expecting parts to be pulled from the finished goods and then checked against a form of checklist such as Ragnar showed.
Whether his audits are excessive are a matter of choice but there is a cross between the audit, layout and revalidation.

The standard says that the product shall be checked and thus walking the control plan is not in fact checking the part rather that the controls are working at the time.
This is I know understood differently by different people and I had a customer who defined product audit as added checks that he wanted to the control plan.
We have discussed the issue of whom can perform the product audit here
Can Quality Inspectors be Product Auditors? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=11433)
Where my view is clear.
There should also be a timetable for the performance of the product audits for the same reasons

Our decisions for product audits came from the AIAG definition as follows:

"The intent of the product audit is verification that the control plan controls in different stages of production, including the shipping dock. The process audit verifies that the process is followed, whereas the product audit verifies that the control plan is followed.

Many years ago, this used to be the job of the inspector who would randomly sample products and verify that the operator was indeed doing the necessary inspection.

The product audit asks the question: How does the organization know if the product checks as required by the control plan are carried out? This is the intent of the product audit. Organizations must sample products and manufacturing processes, including the dock, to ensure that the product dimensions, functionality, packaging and labeling are occurring as planned."

Our decisions for product audits came from the AIAG definition as follows:

"The intent of the product audit is verification that the control plan controls in different stages of production, including the shipping dock. The process audit verifies that the process is followed, whereas the product audit verifies that the control plan is followed.



I have seen this and still do not really agree, I think that the product audit was added with the influence of the VDA and the last post in this thread
http://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000071.html
sums it up.

But here again this is I think a cultural difference that IATF should have issued a guideline for.

I have a lot of product and I can not finished to audit all the product within a year including process and system audit. How should i do ?

Can I priortize the product based on criticallity to customer, based on customer complaint and market complaint or defect found during out going inspection ?

The requirement is that you audit products to verify conformity to all specified requirements [of the product you are auditing]. It does not state that you must do this product audit on every product you have. You determine which product is audited and at what frequency according to how you define your system.

For the majority of product, your standard in-process verification/inspections/testing should be sufficient. The choice of which product to audit is up to you and you can base the choice on whatever works for you.

Dave

The difference that I discussed between the two methods of prodcut audit
That presented by the AIAG of auditing the control plan- or in other words a process control audit
and the actual product audit can be seen in this excerpt from the VW requirements:

5. Product audit
5.1 General
Process variations and low process capabilities tend to have a direct effect on product quality and, consequently, the compliance with customer requirements. In a product audit, it is possible to determine deviations from the customer requirements and to directly draw conclusions with regard to the influencing processes. Taking the detected deviations into account, it is possible to investigate and analyze the priorities in terms of the problem processes and to implement corrective action. The processes can be investigated, analyzed in key areas and continuous improvements achieved.
The supplier is always obliged to carry out product and process audits on their own on a regular basis. Volkswagen also carries out product audits for certain priorities before the process audits at the supplier to evaluate important product characteristics from the point of view of the customer and to identify critical processes.
The task of the product audit is to inspect products that are ready for shipment in terms of their compliance with the specified customer-relevant characteristics, to draw conclusions with regard to the parts / as-delivered quality, to trace deviations back to the defects in the process that cause them and to initiate corrective action, where necessary.
See VDA Volume 6 Part 5 for details.

5.2 Execution and actions
The Volkswagen Group product audit is performed before the Process audit and refers to a few important characteristics that must be defined in consultation with the supplier. The characteristics are selected in a risk-oriented manner according to possible fault category A and or B (see table). It is not possible to include long-term tests in the audit. The latest results that the supplier can provide regarding these products can be used in this regard, if necessary. The most important characteristics can refer to, for example:
• Characteristics that deviate from the customer requirements
• (complaints from the past)
• Dimensions (initial measurement, function, assembly)
• Material
• Function
• Visual appearance
• Product identification


The full requirements can be seen here
http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3404

I think that this is one of these discussions that will never be finished, at least not here.
This would alos appear to be the common ground between the old ( QS9000) dock audit and the VDA 6,5 product audit

Dear Mazura,
Product audit can be done in many ways. Ur org has to decide how to go about it. Remember, whatever ur org decides, it must work for the org, not for the auditors. Auditors check to ensure the system is in place and is working.

Rgds
Athies

i look at the confusion of product and process manufacturing audit similar to the assigning failure modes during the Design FMEA and Process FMEA.

Product audit should look at the intended functionality of the product, and whether the product meets the customer requirements in every stages of the production, right to the shipping and unloading at the customer site.

While, process manufacturing audit, is pretty similar to the Process FMEA approach, where the auditors should look at the potential failures / causes in the process itself, and whether any action has been taken to eliminate or minimise the effect to the internal / external customers.

If I were to look at these, Product audit should be performed less regularly than Process Manufacturing Audit....

We do our products audits as products are being prepared to go out the door. We manufacture raw materials (ALuminum) and use a simple check off form.

what is the differance beteen VW with the VDA6.5?

VW is the manufacture of vehicles.

VDA is the German Automotive manufacturers organisation

VDA 6.1 is for Quality system audit
VDA 6.2 is for Quality system audit services
VDA 6.3 is for process audit
VDA 6.4 is for Quality systems audit production equipment
VDA 6.5 is for product audit
VDA 6.6 is for produict audit services

I hope this helps

Thank Your Answers. I See. I'm A Tyro Of Ts 16949

Our decisions for product audits came from the AIAG definition as follows:

"The intent of the product audit is verification that the control plan controls in different stages of production, including the shipping dock. The process audit verifies that the process is followed, whereas the product audit verifies that the control plan is followed.

Many years ago, this used to be the job of the inspector who would randomly sample products and verify that the operator was indeed doing the necessary inspection.

The product audit asks the question: How does the organization know if the product checks as required by the control plan are carried out? This is the intent of the product audit. Organizations must sample products and manufacturing processes, including the dock, to ensure that the product dimensions, functionality, packaging and labeling are occurring as planned."

As I have made it known in other threads, I am a Newbie in TS. Where is this AIAG definition? It sounds more like a guidance statement. I believe I am leaning more with Howard's views and perspective on the matter of TS 8.2.2.3., but I am still trying to establish a plan for Supplier QMS Development Audits, Layered Process Audits, Internal QMS Audits, Manufacturing Process Audits, and Product Audits.

Any suggestions or recommendations from anyone would be appreciated. Of course I continue to read various threads from the cove to help in my understanding.

Thanks,
Doug

the attached format is self explanatory, hope these informations helps

Our decisions for product audits came from the AIAG definition as follows:

"The intent of the product audit is verification that the control plan controls in different stages of production, including the shipping dock. The process audit verifies that the process is followed, whereas the product audit verifies that the control plan is followed.

Many years ago, this used to be the job of the inspector who would randomly sample products and verify that the operator was indeed doing the necessary inspection.

The product audit asks the question: How does the organization know if the product checks as required by the control plan are carried out? This is the intent of the product audit. Organizations must sample products and manufacturing processes, including the dock, to ensure that the product dimensions, functionality, packaging and labeling are occurring as planned."

The definitions don't make any sense--they're typical AIAG bafflegab. For example, how does having an inspector look at product "...verify that the operator was...doing the necessary inspection"? Wouldn't the inspector have to see the operator inspection being done in order for the verification to be sensible?

It's possible (and even laudable) to have a control plan that includes no "product checks." So how would you do a "product" audit in accordance with the quoted definition?

Then there's this: "How does the organization know that the product checks as required by the control plan are carried out?" A better question would be "If you assume that the requirements of the control plan are not being carried out (which must be the assumption if product audits are considered necessary), what are you doing to solve that problem?" Hint: auditing won't help.

This is not to say that auditing isn't helpful, but if the reason for auditing is that you don't trust people, nothing good can come of it. Give people whom you trust good processes and the means to execute them, and you can go fishing instead of doing all that auditing, or trying to characterize different types of audits by nonsensical definitions.

If an audit doesn't help people to do a better job, it doesn't make any difference what you call it.

Hello ALL,
Just noted in the TS Semiconductor Supplement(for semiconductor parts suppliers).Clause 8.2.4S
"Note Due to semiconductor packaging techniques, it is not required that part testing be performed on parts packaged for shipping unless specifically required by the customer.
Does this also apply to Product audit

Thanks Guys
Athies

I am having a bit of a dilema with internal audits and how we do them.

The form we currently complete for PRODUCT AUDIT, seems to address both process and product auditing! I can give you the examples of the questionaire we complete for a product audit:

There is no inspection of thew product here as I can see!

Works Order

1) Production sample issue:
Spec/Drawing Issue (if relevant)

2) Check BOM is as master

REFERENCE W.O

3) Have traceability numbers (EM/GI) been logged for the stock items? Give x1 example:

4) Has >Picked By= column been signed?
Has >Checked By column been signed?

5) Has production workers been recorded?

6) Have QC signed off W.O (if applicable)

7) Any customer special requirements stated? if so state:

8) Has 7 been actioned correctly?

9) Have all dates been recorded?

Packaging/Labelling

1)Is the packaging as stated on W.O / Product Sample

2) Does label state:
a) Part Numebr
b) Customer part number
c) Carton Qty
d) W.O / DDI Number State:
e) Company Name and Address
f) Inspection stamp in place
g) Operators stamp on top
h) Others


General
Action:

a) 1) Are operators trained for the job they are doing?
2) Is training matrix up to date?
b) 1)What Test/Checks are used?
2) Is product correct to specification / drawing?
3) Are quality objectives met?
4) Are machine parameters set to specification?
5) Are gauges listed on control plan available?
6) Is manufacturing equipment in good condition?
7) Is all test equipment in calibration?
c) Is process correct to Control Plan (where applicable)
d) Is process correct to Work Instructions (where applicable)
e) Are requirements for process capability/performance met (where applicable)
f) Are their any areas where improvement to product could be achieved?
g) Are appropriate records being generated on correct issue of documentation?
h) Cleanliness of work area?
i) Are stores / despatch records correct (where relevant)?

I understand it does check the product for conformance, but is there a need for all the process checks as part of the product audit?

No for me this mainly deals with process checks and a few product requriements. I cannot get my head around this being a Product Audit, as I aggree with Howard, that a Product Audit should specifically check the product for conformance to requirements. This just seems to check the requirements for process have been met with a little bit of product conformance thrown in there for good measure!

Am I right? DO you guys see this as a Product Audit?

I am trying to formulate some streamlined Database approach type systems and this has become my starting point. Your comments would be appreciated.

I am attaching a very generic product audit check-list which can be modified for all uses.

The auditing of processes in my view is one of the most disputed areas of the standard.
The requirement of the standard generally is to audit in a process manner.
8.2.2.2 requires that you audit all manufacturing processes to see if they are effective.
In previous standards when sections 9 and 10 were audited you did not have to go to all manufacturing departments.

Now you do, the emphasis is on each

I am attaching a very generic product audit check-list which can be modified for all uses.

The auditing of processes in my view is one of the most disputed areas of the standard.
The requirement of the standard generally is to audit in a process manner.
8.2.2.2 requires that you audit all manufacturing processes to see if they are effective.
In previous standards when sections 9 and 10 were audited you did not have to go to all manufacturing departments.

Now you do, the emphasis is on each

Yes I understand the process approach. My point is that we have a process audit as well as the "Product Audit" covered above.

Let me explain briefly why I have had this issue:

We carry out some light assembly on our lines, which is what the above audit will cover. We don't however manufacture or assemble all of our product portfolio. Yet we should audit our products at regular intervals as per TS. Some parts we don't even see here, as they are shipped from our manufacturing partner straight to the customer.

I was looking to build a regular product audit system specifically for the products we don't currently see hit our site. In doing this I thought I would see how it could be incorporated into our current product audit procedure. It would be difficult to implement such a system as so much would simply not apply to a product not manufactured on site. Obviously these kind of audits are carried out by our manufacturing partner, and taking on board Jim's comments, I guess us carrying out the audits could be seen as waste! I.e. we don't trust the manufacturing source to ensure product quality continuously!

In my opinion several messages have confused product and process audits.
Product audits are clearly to confirm if the product conforms to some (or all) dimensional or functional requirements. Therefore it involves inspections, measurements, and or tests of the product, not the process.

If your organization uses a Control Plan (or Quality Plan), then the product audit may be performed to determine the results of some Control Plan checks. The output of this product audit should be a 'report' of some kind that clearly states the usual audit specific information (date, time, who was contacted, etc). And specifically, 1) what criteria / specification / standard was used to evaluate the product, 2) if the product(s) audited conform, and 3) if they do not, what was done to correct or prevent the non-conforming product from being released.

I hope this is helpful
Mike

Hi,
Just attended Internal Auditors training. As per consultant, auditor should not inspect or perform any test/inspection during product audit.
my question is, do we just need to check the record only?

i am now have to develop a form for product audit, and i was confusing this (product audit) with process audit. anyone can help me out? thanks. :thanx:

Can anyone give some explanation and samples of the report for conducting product audit. Meaning how do I go about it? Our company is the manufacturer of automotive battery. In TS we need to do product audit. from where shall we start the product audit.

please advice.

thanks

First make plan for Product audit.

As u say its automobile industry.

U may not have wide range product.

I just check out avaliability of my product audit sample & plan.

and send to u for ref.

Hi All,
Greeetings,
Any one here is involved/works in the semiconductor subcontracting(Tier 2) business
We are in a quandary. U see a lot of customers, audit us and all of them have their own intrepretation of product audit, especially the(Tier One) one supplier, who subcontract their manufactruing businesses to organizations like us.
As all the semiconductorains know( ha ha just coined a new word), the parts are tested, dimensions are measured and records maintained all along the processes. So what is the point of doing additional dimension measurements/ testing per defined frequency. Mind you, in the semiconducotor business, millions of parts are made daily.

Any feedback is welcome and much appreciated!!!

Thanks Athies

I have been thinking about these audits (systems, manufacturing process, product) for quite a while....

I think like this:

1) We don't know whether the process generating the product is ok if we don't check on the product.

2) The process is made up of man, machine, material, method, and work environment. We shall check all of them to ensure they are ok, so that good product can be generated.

3) From checking of product, we may find the causes of its nonconformities.

4) So, I would design a product checklist to capture all the product features and characteristics and defects, without process checks in there.

5) Then, I would also design manufacturing process checklist to check on all the man, machine, material, method, and work environment.

6) But, I would use the product audit result to zoom into relevant manufacturing process steps with the help of the control plan and PFMEA to find out if there is anything wrong with any of the man, machine, material, method, and work environment used there, also the interface (the earlier step and subsequent step).

Now I conclude, I would audit like this:

1) At each step of the control plan, I audit the product generated there first.

2) Then, I would check that control plan is being followed at the step.

3) But, in addition, I would assess the strength and weakness of the man, machine, material, method, and work environment in that step, even though the control plan is being followed at that step.

4) As the Standard says: audit base on importance and status....I would only audit when the process is new and when there are customer complaints or process instability. Unless I have the luxurious of time, I will not do additional audits be repeating it to meet the so-called "defined frequency". I think my
"defined frequency" is "new and when...".

OK? Any problems? Please teach me...:thanks::thanx:

I have been thinking about these audits (systems, manufacturing process, product) for quite a while....

I think like this:

1) We don't know whether the process generating the product is ok if we don't check on the product.

2) The process is made up of man, machine, material, method, and work environment. We shall check all of them to ensure they are ok, so that good product can be generated.

3) From checking of product, we may find the causes of its nonconformities.

4) So, I would design a product checklist to capture all the product features and characteristics and defects, without process checks in there.

5) Then, I would also design manufacturing process checklist to check on all the man, machine, material, method, and work environment.

6) But, I would use the product audit result to zoom into relevant manufacturing process steps with the help of the control plan and PFMEA to find out if there is anything wrong with any of the man, machine, material, method, and work environment used there, also the interface (the earlier step and subsequent step).

Now I conclude, I would audit like this:

1) At each step of the control plan, I audit the product generated there first.

2) Then, I would check that control plan is being followed at the step.

3) But, in addition, I would assess the strength and weakness of the man, machine, material, method, and work environment in that step, even though the control plan is being followed at that step.

4) As the Standard says: audit base on importance and status....I would only audit when the process is new and when there are customer complaints or process instability. Unless I have the luxurious of time, I will not do additional audits be repeating it to meet the so-called "defined frequency". I think my
"defined frequency" is "new and when...".

OK? Any problems? Please teach me...:thanks::thanx:

pinpin,

Look at my response to one of your posts here (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=238502&postcount=2).

I hate for you to worry so much!

Stijloor.

Hi,
Just attended Internal Auditors training. As per consultant, auditor should not inspect or perform any test/inspection during product audit.
my question is, do we just need to check the record only?

i am now have to develop a form for product audit, and i was confusing this (product audit) with process audit. anyone can help me out? thanks. :thanx:


Whether you reinspect a feature or not during a product audit is up to you. When I suspect something, I always ask someone to reinspect something to verify it is accurate. Sometimes it is a good audit technique.

Whether you reinspect a feature or not during a product audit is up to you. When I suspect something, I always ask someone to reinspect something to verify it is accurate. Sometimes it is a good audit technique.

It is an excellent audit technique. Nothing beats a "show me" audit point.
Because auditors are expected to audit processes on all shifts, it is an excellent technique to verify consistency in practice, a major source of variation in inspection/testing results.

Stijloor.

pinpin,

Look at my response to one of your posts here (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=238502&postcount=2).

I hate for you to worry so much!

Stijloor.

I worry because my Management only look at number of NC we have and I am responsible.

I worry so much because my remuneration would be affected if auditors found NC in these!

Of course these NCs must be correct and accurate, so I need to understand what constitute correctness.

My experience with most auditors were that what they think and what I think are always different, and what they say not that are not right are almost always not right for me because they tend to ask us to apply huge organization practice in our small business.

I worry because my Management only look at number of NC we have and I am responsible.

No, you are not. The person that "owns" the process is.

I worry so much because my remuneration would be affected if auditors found NC in these!

I can understand, but your management has to accept the fact that they have a clearly defined resposibility too. Re: Section 5 in ISO and ISO/TS

Of course these NCs must be correct and accurate, so I need to understand what constitute correctness.

I understand. You must ensure that this gets done. Not that you have to do the work.

My experience with most auditors were that what they think and what I think are always different, and what they say not that are not right are almost always not right for me because they tend to ask us to apply huge organization practice in our small business.

That's why it OK to push back. You do not have to accept everything they say, or interpret what they say as a requirement. Remember, it's your quality management system. Nobody knows better how it works than you and the managers (I hope ;)).

Stijloor.

Thank you Stijloor, too bad that sometimes Management thought the auditor is right! And they thought I am looking for excuse to get away from the NC. I just feel disappointed that some of them make simple things into complicated ones.:(

I'd like to thank you guys for all the information you have provided in this post. During my last TS audit, the auditor asked if we did product audits. We explained how we did them...basically an internal process audit using the PQCT as a guide through the process. This guy insisted that was not a product audit. He suggested a couple of books to purchase and read. Well, $80 bucks later and many hours of pouring over these painfully boring works of literary instruction, I realized we've been doing product audits all along with our internal process activity. Don't get me wrong, I learned alot by reading those books but for the reason I read them....well...it was a waste of my time. Oh yeah...just to put my two cents in with who is assigned the audits....Our QC department normally conducts these audits in conjunction with the department team leaders. I sure hope that is right! lol
Susan :tg:

"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon."

I worry because my Management only look at number of NC we have and I am responsible.

I worry so much because my remuneration would be affected if auditors found NC in these!

Of course these NCs must be correct and accurate, so I need to understand what constitute correctness.

My experience with most auditors were that what they think and what I think are always different, and what they say not that are not right are almost always not right for me because they tend to ask us to apply huge organization practice in our small business.

NCs are intended by ISO to help push improvement. So, management should not punish you for NCs. That is foolish and naive. Certainly, your remuneration should not be tied to it. That is very counterproductive.

Having said that, with all due respect to your auditors, it sounds like you should find yourself a better auditor. Perhaps your company is not getting its money's worth from your current provider.

:mad:Yeah, we are in the same boat... every customer request is entertained.
No body debates, discusses any thing with the customer's auditors.
The auditors too do not want to understand our way of operation and the way things are done to suit our infrastructure, facilities and IT systems

hi,
What we normally do for product audit is pull some unit from production and perform some test (in order to determine the unit are fulfilling the specification/requirements).
During our last ts surveillance audit, the auditor did comment on the product audit. He said auditor shall not need to perform any test, we shall just sampling pick a lot from finished goods, and then just trace the record from backwards until the incoming store (raw materials).
Therfore, we are performing this kind of product audit now. from my point of view, it is much simple that we did last time... for now, we just pull record and attach to the audit report.
my doubts is, what will be the nc?
at the same time, i am reading vda 6.5. a bit confusing for me, as from my understanding, it requires auditors to perform some sort of test...???
Anyone can provide detailed guideline on product audit? or any example...

That sounds much more simple than what I have been reading about. Our TS auditor suggested us buying this book, Quality Audits for Improved Performance" by Dennis Arter,[I]to direct us in performing product audits. [I]I have the book on order but from what I read in the excert prior to ordering it seems like we already do this with our quality daily checks and our quality shipping dock audits. If what your auditor outlined for you is all we need to do then I would be very very happy!!! Our quality associates can do that on a weekly basis in no time flat being that we have a great lot tracability system in place. I am hoping that after I read the book I can combine the text with the information here on the Cove to implement a solid system here. Eventually we'll get it right! lol
Thanks!!!
Susan:D