Hi

Im currently drafting a turtle diagram for engineering process.can you give an example or what will be my outputs for engineering process.I can't start yet my diagram since i still dont know yet my outputs..Pls help

:thanx:
Sweetmeg

Hello Sweetmeg,

One of the beauties of using a turtle diagram is that the concept doesn't change. The outputs from your process should always be equal to the expectation of the inputs. The format of the turtle and the logic used in its development are pretty much the same from turtle to turtle.

I notice from previous posts you have been given example turtles for Internal Audits, Shipping, Receiving, Quality Assurance and Employee Motivation. Each of those should illustrate the format and logic employed in using this tool. I would guess there is some area of designing a turtle you aren't comfortable with. Possibly we should be helping you in other ways to give you a better understanding. Maybe for this turtle you could post a turtle diagram showing what you have so far and let the people here help you walk through it a step at a time.

I wonder if a discussion of the thinking that goes into each section of the turtle would help. Others may be able to benefit and/or help still more understand this tool. Any thoughts?

Dave

Heres a turtle....perhaps this might help?

A picture paints a thousand words and all that

Jane

Thank the #3 for the better document!
Do you have any other turtle diagram?

Hi SweetMeg

I think people have misinterpreted the "Turtle Diagram" - there is not "one" turtle diagram for a process such as "Engineering Design"...there are many sub-processes, each with their own input and output.

Doing it the way I see most companies do this, i.e., just dumping all the input and output onto one turtle is not adequate, and adds little value, since a new employee would be hard-pressed to understand his/her responsibilities, and the flow of activities based on one turtle. Further...what is input at one stage, could well be output at another stage, so it becomes a very confusing and counter-productive exercise, trying to decide what box to assign input or output to.

The answer is to flowchart all the steps, and to identify the unique input and output at each stage, along with the associated responsibilities. Where there is a need for more details...it usually appears in the form of a reference to a Work Instruction or another procedure.

Sorry, I don't have time to go into more detail. The attached "Product Realization - Phase 3 - Engineering Design, Development and Verification" flow chart should help...just add you input and output for your facility and product...

Hope this helps,
Patricia

Here's another alternative approach to visualizing the inputs and outputs to master processes in a turtle type of graphical communication.
The attached image file is a mere representation of what can be done using a great program called "Mind Genius" www.mindgenius.com I'm not associated with the program yet, I have used it for almost 5 years now and, it does a great job of communicating business processes and associated functions in a turtle type format called Mind mapping.
The contained info is kind of rough but, I hope it gives you the big picture.
Wallace.

Hi Wallace,

The software looks interesting, but I don't see the value of it. You can't train a person to a new process using it, and I can't imagine how you could begin to audit to this "map", or even create a flow chart from it. It's just not enough to make up for a written procedure or a proper flow chart. It's too cryptic. It's a lot of work, and I can't imagine that the average employee could explain it.

It seems that arrows are indiscriminately used to connect activities and there's no sense of where to begin or end.

Sorry, I give it a thumbs down. :nope:

Patricia

Patricia,
I didn't attach the visual for approval :tg:
I said: it was a ""mere representation of what can be done using a great program called "Mind Genius"". :rolleyes:

You said; "It seems that arrows are indiscriminately used to connect activities and there's no sense of where to begin or end." Of course they are, I said: "The contained info is kind of rough but, I hope it gives you the big picture."

I do however respect your right to a professional opinion. :)
Regardless of your particular understanding and use of Turtle maps, I use the said program and other Mind mapping software programs extremely effectively for communicating processes associated with Business and corporate organizational communications. ;)
Wallace.

Just a FYI Patricia,
Attached is a work instruction the operators of a work process authored using Mind Genius. The program allows for many formats fo use. I believe it took almost 20 minutes to compile and, it was adopted by two shifts. :rolleyes:
Wallace.

Hi Wallace,

Re: "The contained info is kind of rough but, I hope it gives you the big picture."

I apologize for the unsolicited critique...I'm not in a position to berate the software, but, the problem lies exactly in what you said re:..."I hope it gives you the big picture." Most people don't carry it beyond the "turtle diagram", and so it's value is compromised and the big picture never materializes.

I can see you have gone beyond the turtle, and the software has other applications, such as the operator instructions you've posted.

I think tools like this are excellent for providing consistency and standardization in system documentation.

Thanks for the repartee.
Patricia

No apology necessary at all. :)
Search the Cove or even google search Mind mapping and you'll find lots of information to digest?
There's a few Mind mappers at the Cove (Including myself) who would be pleased to offer you, pertinent information when requested. I'm an unashamed Mind mapper of all things. :rolleyes:
Wallace.

Hi Sweetmeg, I am very new to the cove and discovered it through a search for information on turtle diagrams. I am in the process of developing an ISO quality manual for automotive 3rd party containment and sorting and was asked by my registrar if I was planning to use the process approach or the element based in developing the manual. After a brief discussion, the process approach seemed to make more sense for my application. So here I am, trying to get some solid advise on how to get it all done. It sure looks like I came to the right place!!! If you or anyone elso out there can halp me with this task I would greatly appreciate it. We are a brand new company and have set some very short time lines for ourselves.

Thanks all.

Patricia

I have reviewed the flowchart you showed us. And I think you really give me some clue useful.

Yeah, you have broke your processes to a detailed degree that way I appreciate it. So would you kindly show me the other processes flowchart for reference?

Your kind response will be appreciated.My email address:zhaochaoran@hotmail.com

best wishes!

Hi engiane,

I to am trying to put together a turtle diagram to audit our quality management system and would appreciate any help in this area.

shallowmike

(with apologies to all turtles...and octopi.)

Why re-invent the wheel, use the standard itself, that's how I explain it.
People get more hung up on making an anatomically correct diagram than doing the right thing.

Sure, input - activity - output.
5 - how's it managed
6 - what's the resources
7 - how's it controlled
8 - how's it measured and improved upon

To paraphrase Dr. Feynman, "no theorem is valid unless you can explain it to the first person you meet on the street."

Madfox, yes understand where you are coming from but if the external auditing body used by my company prefers this route then thats the way we go. From what I have seen of these diagrams they do simplify the auditing process (not that simple I guess as I can't grasp it yet) and I'm sure after doing some I will have it rumbled, so is there anyone else pro-turtle who could help.

Oh and by the way what if the first person in the street you meet is a child of age 3 and doesn't speak your language.......huh