I am new to this forum and this question has probably been asked before, but a customer of ours has requested a level 2 PPAP for a part we are going to buy from a distributor, send to someone else for a secondary operation and sell. Is it appropriate for us to be submitting a level 2 PPAP? I've already asked them what forms they would like to see since there seems to be some question over what exactly is in a level 2 PPAP. Thanks.

I am new to this forum and this question has probably been asked before, but a customer of ours has requested a level 2 PPAP for a part we are going to buy from a distributor, send to someone else for a secondary operation and sell. Is it appropriate for us to be submitting a level 2 PPAP? I've already asked them what forms they would like to see since there seems to be some question over what exactly is in a level 2 PPAP. Thanks.
According to AIAG, a Level 2 PPAP consists of "Warrant with product samples and limited supporting data submitted to customer." So your customer will have to specify (in writing, I hope) what "limited supporting data" means. It could be a dimensional report, or a material test report, or both, or neither--it's the customer's call.

According to AIAG, a Level 2 PPAP consists of "Warrant with product samples and limited supporting data submitted to customer." So your customer will have to specify (in writing, I hope) what "limited supporting data" means. It could be a dimensional report, or a material test report, or both, or neither--it's the customer's call.

A word of caution. This description is correct as far as what actually is sent to the customer, but PPAP requires that you complete all requirements and maintain them on file. This includes the requirements for control plans, FMEAs, etc.

A word of caution. This description is correct as far as what actually is sent to the customer, but PPAP requires that you complete all requirements and maintain them on file. This includes the requirements for control plans, FMEAs, etc.
You're right, and I should have mentioned it. Thanks.

The PPAP (3ºs Issues) level 2 is necessary has all documents requested in PPAP, but some submited others no a your Costumer.

Further more is necessary that it has all for future requests !

Best Regards.

Good day !!! :agree1:
It represents the material chain in bulk and I was certifyd by iso ts 16949:2002 has about 8 months.
My doubt is referring the application of PPAP for my suppliers.:mg:
I have that to apply the PPAP them new products/substance to only be approved or it is necessary to apply for the previous products/substance that already are approved and take care of the imposed specifications, however also was not applied the methodology of PPAP for its approval and one will be to use the same in new formularizations for customers whom the application of this methodology requested ?

I don´t know must clear...sorry

Good day !!! :agree1:
It represents the material chain in bulk and I was certifyd by iso ts 16949:2002 has about 8 months.
My doubt is referring the application of PPAP for my suppliers.:mg:
I have that to apply the PPAP them new products/substance to only be approved or it is necessary to apply for the previous products/substance that already are approved and take care of the imposed specifications, however also was not applied the methodology of PPAP for its approval and one will be to use the same in new formularizations for customers whom the application of this methodology requested ?

I don´t know must clear...sorry

Normally, you do not apply new standards such as PPAP retroactively to product qualified prior to your preparation for TS16949. You should begin to apply it to new or changed product from the start of you preparation for TS registration forward.

Your customer may require that you have some of this information such as control plans to assure ongoing performance.

Normally, you do not apply new standards such as PPAP retroactively to product qualified prior to your preparation for TS16949. You should begin to apply it to new or changed product from the start of you preparation for TS registration forward.

Your customer may require that you have some of this information such as control plans to assure ongoing performance.

Well,

But, used substance/product in new devolopment, is a need request PPAP to my Old Supplier, if this is old Supplier already approved a long time ago (NOTE.:without PPAP) ? :bonk:


:thanx:

Well,

But, used substance/product in new devolopment, is a need request PPAP to my Old Supplier, if this is old Supplier already approved a long time ago (NOTE.:without PPAP) ? :bonk:


:thanx:

Unfortunately, your customer will require it of you, so you have no choice but to pass it down to your supplier.The PPAP of your product includes all components and materials used in it. If you had an existing PPAP of that component/material on file, and it had not changed, you can usually include a copy of it in your PPAP and not require a new one from your supplier. In this case you never had a copy of the PPAP, so you must ask for one. If you then use it in another new product, you should be able to reuse a copy of this one unless your customer says otherwise.

Unfortunately, your customer will require it of you, so you have no choice but to pass it down to your supplier.The PPAP of your product includes all components and materials used in it. If you had an existing PPAP of that component/material on file, and it had not changed, you can usually include a copy of it in your PPAP and not require a new one from your supplier. In this case you never had a copy of the PPAP, so you must ask for one. If you then use it in another new product, you should be able to reuse a copy of this one unless your customer says otherwise.

with all the paperwork...no wonder we have no time for the WORK..:bonk: .. the idea of PAP is great but the implementation is out of control imho!!!!

This is interesting - Are you saying that previously produced material, and used by the customer, should not be required to meet PPAP package submittal documentation? Now that the customer is asking for PPAP docs - should we "push-back" and request a waiver of some sort?
We understand, of course, the customer can always ask for (and get) anything they want if the supplier is willing.

This is interesting - Are you saying that previously produced material, and used by the customer, should not be required to meet PPAP package submittal documentation? Now that the customer is asking for PPAP docs - should we "push-back" and request a waiver of some sort?
We understand, of course, the customer can always ask for (and get) anything they want if the supplier is willing.

I think that what he's saying--and I'm not sure--is that he wants to "grandfather" material that was approved by the customer before PPAP requirements were imposed, with (I think) the assumption that material still meets the specifications. To put it another way, I think he's asking if he should have to PPAP retroactively, or ex post facto.

I think that what he's saying--and I'm not sure--is that he wants to "grandfather" material that was approved by the customer before PPAP requirements were imposed, with (I think) the assumption that material still meets the specifications. To put it another way, I think he's asking if he should have to PPAP retroactively, or ex post facto.

Yes:biglaugh: , but what does it mean to have a PPAP retroactively. If you don't have the docs that is. Do you have to make the docs? How could one justify with the customer the idea of "grandfathering" or specifically, waiving the PPAP requirements (right?):confused:

Yes:biglaugh: , but what does it mean to have a PPAP retroactively. If you don't have the docs that is. Do you have to make the docs? How could one justify with the customer the idea of "grandfathering" or specifically, waiving the PPAP requirements (right?):confused:

If the material in question was approved by the customer prior to the PPAP requirement, then the approvals should stand (i.e., the materials should be grandfathered for PPAP purposes). If the customer wants new testing and other documentation, it should be a matter of negotiation at this point. It shouldn't be an issue of waiving PPAP requirements; it shouldn't be required at all--you don't need to waive something that's not required.