Preliminary information I received from a member of the TC 176 committee this morning:
2005 - there will be an addendum to ISO 9001:2000 brought out that will more clearly define much of the terminology in the standard.

2008- another addendum

2010 - next revision to the standard ISO 9001:2010, although there continues to be much discussion on this.

Preliminary information I received from a member of the TC 176 committee this morning:
2005 - there will be an addendum to ISO 9001:2000 brought out that will more clearly define much of the terminology in the standard.

2008- another addendum

2010 - next revision to the standard ISO 9001:2010, although there continues to be much discussion on this.


Piney:

Did this TC 176 member give you any idea if there are any other issues covered in the 2005 addendum? For instance, is the customer satisfaction monitoring requirement going to be clarified (8.2.1)?

I believe Jack West is giving an update to the TC 176 work at the Outlook on Quality Systems conference on October 3-4 in Miami.

Let's hope the hurricanes are all done battering the coast by that time!

Piney:

Did this TC 176 member give you any idea if there are any other issues covered in the 2005 addendum? For instance, is the customer satisfaction monitoring requirement going to be clarified (8.2.1)?

I will continue to plug him for information :) TC 176 meets next month in Panama.

I can tell you that after a 10 minute conversation with him, my outlook and enthusiasm for quality and quality management systems have been completely revitalized! The next five years are going to be extremely interesting!

A few of the things that the committee is looking at include: a quality system introduced by Atomic Energy of Canada that incorporates quality, safety, and environment all in one standard, and a registered standard (currently 35 companies registered to) in Britain that focuses entirely on employee competence, awareness, and training.

Also see this thread: Will the ISO 9001 be modified in 2008? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=12112)

Hello All:

The following is my understanding....


I believe Piney has combined information on ISO 9000:2000, ISO 9001:2000 and ISO 9004:2000.

ISO 9000:200X is already at the FDIS (Final Draft Interantional Standard) stage. This means that ISO 9000:200X could be published as an International Standard by the end of 2005.

The plan is to Amend ISO 9001:2000 and to Revise ISO 9004:2000. Amend means to clarify content to improve useability of the standard. There should be no changes to requirements. Revise means to clarify and to change requirmeents. Keep in mind that ISO 9004 is a non-normative standard. There really are no requirements within ISO 9004 from a certification standpoint. There are requiremtns within ISO 9004 if an organization chooses to implement it for improvement purposes.

Both the amendment to ISO 9001 and the revision to ISO 9004 are expected to be completed by 2008 based on how long the amendment / revision process has taken in the past. If there are lots of arguemnts and disagreement amongst member bodies, it may take even longer.

Regards, Dirk

Just out of curiosity, where do you go to get this information. Does ISO put this out for all who visit their web-site?

Hello Dbulak:

I got my information by joining the US Technical Advisory Group to ISO/Technical Committe 176; the US TAG.

http://www.tc176.org/

Regards, Dirk

Also see post 3 in this thread: Design Specification for an Amendment to ISO 9001:2000 (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=14749)

Anyone have any recent news on the ISO 9001 evolution?

I can't find any details about the amendments but just some news regarding the TC176...............:(

Attached is the TC176 N817R3 June 2006 which stated the ISO 9001 in working draft development stage.

Based on the news from http://www.tc176.org/Program.asp
Meeting of TC176 Plenary and its Subcommittees just held on November 13-18, 2006 Busan, Korea.:tg:

Per the most recent issue of Quality Digest Magazine (January 2007, Vol. 27, Issue 1), the revised ISO 9001 is due to be released in early 2007 (based on the S. Korea Nov meeting).
http://www.qualitydigest.com/currentmag/news.shtml#6

FWIW, Eileen

Per the most recent issue of Quality Digest Magazine (January 2007, Vol. 27, Issue 1), the revised ISO 9001 is due to be released in early 2007 (based on the S. Korea Nov meeting).
http://www.qualitydigest.com/currentmag/news.shtml#6

FWIW, EileenQD needs someone else reviewing their articles. What will be released is the latest DRAFT (Committee Draft CD1). Which will be followed by CD2, DIS, FDIS and finally, sometime in 2009, ISO 9001:2009.

FWIW, too bad we have so many different threads dealing with the upcoming changes to ISO 9001. The information is getting diluted and segmented.

This would only cut the number of users and make ISO business system more limited. The company I work in can't afford an environment system's current requirement and need for paid expertise.

This would only cut the number of users and make ISO business system more limited. The company I work in can't afford an environment system's current requirement and need for paid expertise.

What are you talking about?:confused:

ISO has been discussing making one ISO standard that would encompass quality, environment, and safety. The assumption embedded in what I have read is that they would obsolete ISO 9001, ISO 14001, and the safety standard (I think it is ISO 18001). Many small companies, I believe, would drop their ISO registration due to the high cost of maintaining these 3 systems in their facilities. Many small businesses have difficulty maintaining one of the management systems and I believe a combined system that must contain safety, environmental, and quality continuous improvement would over extend their resources.

ISO has been discussing making one ISO standard that would encompass quality, environment, and safety. The assumption embedded in what I have read is that they would obsolete ISO 9001, ISO 14001, and the safety standard (I think it is ISO 18001). Your sources are totally unreliable. There is no such discussion going on at the ISO TC's.

The question is, who/what are the sources.

ISO has been discussing making one ISO standard that would encompass quality, environment, and safety. The assumption embedded in what I have read is that they would obsolete ISO 9001, ISO 14001, and the safety standard (I think it is ISO 18001). Many small companies, I believe, would drop their ISO registration due to the high cost of maintaining these 3 systems in their facilities. Many small businesses have difficulty maintaining one of the management systems and I believe a combined system that must contain safety, environmental, and quality continuous improvement would over extend their resources.

Where on earth are you getting this completely fictional information from?

'What you have read' is wrong. Do, please, check your facts before you make or pass on such utterly unsubstantiated and wild claims.

ISO has been discussing making one ISO standard that would encompass quality, environment, and safety. The assumption embedded in what I have read is that they would obsolete ISO 9001, ISO 14001, and the safety standard (I think it is ISO 18001). Many small companies, I believe, would drop their ISO registration due to the high cost of maintaining these 3 systems in their facilities. Many small businesses have difficulty maintaining one of the management systems and I believe a combined system that must contain safety, environmental, and quality continuous improvement would over extend their resources.

Looks like you were 4 days late with this post. :notme: :notme:

I am looking forward to its change and issue

I suspect RhoRho has been on the receiving end of some marketing material from a registrar pushing registration of an integrated management system.

My paper recycling bin is full of the stuff.

RhoRho may not be totally off base. There is a group within ISO called the SAG-MSS (Strategic Advisory Group on Management System Standardization.)

"The Strategic Advisory Group on Management System Standardization will provide strategic oversight and advice to the Technical Management Board on evolutions in MSS standardization, and the Joint Technical Coordination Group, which will ensure technical coordination between committees preparing MSS, recommends that the Strategic Advisory Group propose actions to improve ISO’s reach towards the public and private sectors in order to better address trends in management practices, expectations on MSS, and the promotion of the ISO MSS.

The Strategic Advisory Group on Management Systems Standards [is] requested to look into ways to further address ISO’s reach towards the public and private sectors in order to better address trends in management practices, expectations on MSS, and the promotion of the ISO MSS."

As it was descrbed to me, one of the objectives of the SAG-MSS was to look at the possibility, strategy and benefits of integrating quality, environmental and security MSS into one generic, over reaching standard. The SAG-MSS is also to look at the exsistence of sector specific standards, why they exist, what will the future of standards look like, etc. The SAG-MSS has the responsibility of reviewing what MSS are being published, do they meet the needs of the users, where we wil be in the future, where do MSS want to be, what is the vision, etc.

I am in no way an expert on this group or their responsibility, but one person did describe their charter to include an analysis of one integrate MSS.

Regards,

Dirk

PAS 99 is available out there and serves as a framework for integration of Management Systems. Unless ISO TCs 176 and 207 suffer from short term memory loss, less than 2 years ago they declared the intention of making ISO 9001 and 14001 more compatible, BUT KEPT as distinct documents. For more information check the hyperlinked file I posted here (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=124262&postcount=1).

http://seminar.bsi-global.com/p53224348/

This is the BSI presentation on the changes.

Good presentation. I'm impressed.

Preliminary information I received from a member of the TC 176 committee this morning:
2005 - there will be an addendum to ISO 9001:2000 brought out that will more clearly define much of the terminology in the standard.

2008- another addendum

2010 - next revision to the standard ISO 9001:2010, although there continues to be much discussion on this.

Is there any addendum in 2005?

ISO has been discussing making one ISO standard that would encompass quality, environment, and safety. The assumption embedded in what I have read is that they would obsolete ISO 9001, ISO 14001, and the safety standard (I think it is ISO 18001). Many small companies, I believe, would drop their ISO registration due to the high cost of maintaining these 3 systems in their facilities. Many small businesses have difficulty maintaining one of the management systems and I believe a combined system that must contain safety, environmental, and quality continuous improvement would over extend their resources.

What you can do is that integrate the other standards with ISO 9001. What I mean to say is that you can intergate the management part of these standards. That would reduce your efforts, time, money (resources) as well as sync the entire system (eliminate the redunduncy)
Correct me if i'm wrong.:thanks:

Is there any addendum in 2005?

There is a new ISO 9000:2005. ( Quality management systems -- Fundamentals and vocabulary )
ISO 9001 has not changed yet. Still version 2000.

Best regards,

Antoine

http://seminar.bsi-global.com/p53224348/

This is the BSI presentation on the changes.I don't understand slide 9. The CD1 of ISO 9004:2009 is so different from ISO 9004:2000 that I don't understand why they keep saying that 9004:2009 will still be a companion document to ISO 9001:2009 and a consistent pair. Jack West says the same in his latest QD column, but from where I sit, I see 9004 and 9001 miles apart. Not conflicting, but very, very distinct documents.

I don't understand slide 9. The CD1 of ISO 9004:2009 is so different from ISO 9004:2000 that I don't understand why they keep saying that 9004:2009 will still be a companion document to ISO 9001:2009 and a consistent pair. Jack West says the same in his latest QD column, but from where I sit, I see 9004 and 9001 miles apart. Not conflicting, but very, very distinct documents.

I agree. I'll try and get more info from the presenter and let you know if I get a response.

The CD1 of ISO 9004:2009 is so different from ISO 9004:2000 that I don't understand why they keep saying that 9004:2009 will still be a companion document to ISO 9001:2009 and a consistent pair. Jack West says the same in his latest QD column, but from where I sit, I see 9004 and 9001 miles apart. Not conflicting, but very, very distinct documents.

Yes, they look very different to me. Interesting direction they're taking.

Boring presentation though - classic uninspiring case of the speaker just reading through every word on the text on every slide... just sends me to sleep.

Yes, they look very different to me. Interesting direction they're taking.

Boring presentation though - classic uninspiring case of the speaker just reading through every word on the text on every slide... just sends me to sleep.

Jane, are you going to share the Standards Australia presentation with us? I supposre that has music, jokes and a barbie.:)

I've spoken to BSI about the new relationship between 9001 and 9004. They confirm that 9004 now has more of a focus on economic sustainability but insist there is still a consistency between the standards. (I'm only the messenger, don't shoot!)

The next published phase will apparently be available in June 2007 and will incorporate any revisions found necessary as a result of comments to CD1..

I've spoken to BSI about the new relationship between 9001 and 9004. They confirm that 9004 now has more of a focus on economic sustainability but insist there is still a consistency between the standards. (I'm only the messenger, don't shoot!)


Not even taking aim :) I like the draft - merely commenting on the quite radical change of direction.

:topic:

Jane, are you going to share the Standards Australia presentation with us? I suppose that has music, jokes and a barbie.:)


Well of course - you mean not everyone does it that way??? :lol:
I just don't understand why they bothered to record it, since there didn't seem to be a single word in the recording that wasn't on a slide, and I have a particular hate of that kind of prezzo.

I'd share the SAA one if there was one, but I'm not aware of it. Went looking and couldn't find it, but I'll ask around.

Not sure if this link will work but it is the latest from BSI


http://seminar.bsi-global.com/p53224348/

Not sure if this link will work but it is the latest from BSI


http://seminar.bsi-global.com/p53224348/

That's the same link that's already being discussed... already posted in this thread

http://seminar.bsi-global.com/p53224348/

I'm new with this forum. I heard that there will be a change on the ISO 9001 standard next year. Then, I saw your posting that indicated that it will be just some addendum to the existing standard. How do I get the addendum details? I went to visit the TC176 website, but not sure where to look.

So, does this mean that the new standard will not be published until 2010?

Thanks for your help! :)

hi
can you upload this draft for downloading anyone?

hi
can you upload this draft for downloading anyone?

It is not permitted to provide copyrighted materials here on The Cove Forums.

The document can be obtained at www.iso.org.

Stijloor.

hi
can you upload this draft for downloading anyone?You can download the document yourself from http://www.nsai.ie/index.cfm/area/news/action/article/information/qualitymanagement

This link had already been provided by another Cover. And there is no copyright infringement for you to download a copy of the DIS from there. The Irish Standardization Body has the right to provide this draft document for free. Happy reading.

You can download the document yourself from http://www.nsai.ie/index.cfm/area/news/action/article/information/qualitymanagement

This link had already been provided by another Cover. And there is no copyright infringement for you to download a copy of the DIS from there. The Irish Standardization Body has the right to provide this draft document for free. Happy reading.

Sidney,

Thank you for the link.

However, now I am totally confused. When is a standard copyrighted, and when is it not? Do national standards bodies such as NSAI have the right to distribute ISO standards for free download?

By the way, I paid ISO $56.81 for the Standard....:( :(

Stijloor.

However, now I am totally confused. When is a standard copyrighted, and when is it not? Do national standards bodies such as NSAI have the right to distribute ISO standards for free download? From what I gather, relevant stakeholders might allow for free circulation of a DRAFT of an international standard, as long as the intent is to receive comments and feedback to the document. ASQ, which is not the official US representative to the TC 176 did that with the CD1 version.

Thanks for the info and link.
Mark

Good presentation. I'm impressed.

hi marc
we are working on ISO9001:2000 right now and my organization want that i will attend ISO 9001:2000 lead auditor training with Llyods register.
now when iso9001:200x is going to be revised, is this right time to go for training?
or i will wait for amendment in iso9001:200x.
plz help me to get out of it.
thanks

hi marc
we are working on ISO9001:2000 right now and my organization want that i will attend ISO 9001:2000 lead auditor training with Llyods register.
now when iso9001:200x is going to be revised, is this right time to go for training?
or i will wait for amendment in iso9001:200x.
plz help me to get out of it.
thanks

Hello charan,

This is not Marc, I am Stijloor. I hope that's OK. :)

Do attend the training. You'll be fine. The changes in the new Standard are very minor. These changes will not affect the audit training and audit process in general. I am sure that Lloyd's Registrar will provide information about the changes. Read the course outline.

Stijloor.

I second what Stijloor says.

There's little point in waiting, the revisions are very, very minor. In some cases, for example, they are clarifying points that good auditors & certifiers (including Lloyds) have already been doing and advocating.

I'm sure you'll be kept up to date with them.