Hello all. I've been reading the posts here for a month or so and have found the site very useful. This is my first post here so go easy on my fragile male ego.

Are documents requiring control per 4.2.3 of the Standards only those relating to performance of processes relating to customer services and products?

I ask because some in our group are trying to include monthly status sheets employees provide to managers, VPN log-on instructions, instructions for consultants email signature, etc. I'm thinking these documents are outside of the scope of 4.2.3.

It is hard to say without looking at them, however I would say a good litmus test would be to ask:

Can the absence or alteration of the document affect Quality or customer satisfaction?

If the answer is yes, they should be controlled, if the answer is no, they may still be a controlled document, but it is less likely.

Can you give some more detail?

Carl-

dlwhite Welcome to the cove. :bigwave: Control of documents needs to be reviwed as Carl Keller stated in his post. One item to consider regarding the reports you referenced is, if the reports are records of performance you may want to control the form so the records are in a standardized format.

As Carl and others may suggest, often it is easy to turn the question upside down and ask,
"Why should this document be controlled? How does its presence or absence affect our quality management system? Specifically, how does it affect a product or service we provide to a customer?"

Often there is a glimmer or a seed of reason why it should be controlled (I hope we are operating under the same definition of control - restrictions on who may create, approve, alter, copy, print, or read a document.) Control is different from management. If the concept isn't clear, let's take it up in a new thread.

Welcome among the posters :bigwave:, and now that you have made your premiere: Keep posting. :DAre documents requiring control per 4.2.3 of the Standards only those relating to performance of processes relating to customer services and products?
I ask because some in our group are trying to include... ... I'm thinking these documents are outside of the scope of 4.2.3. Your examples:

Monthly status sheets employees provide to managers sounds more like records (4.2.4). I suppose one could consider VPN log-on instructions and instructions for consultants email signature to fall under clause 4.2.3... but one could also find reasons not to... It is not black or white. It depends on how important they are to you.

Carls question is a good way to come to a conclusion.

/Claes

Hello all. I've been reading the posts here for a month or so and have found the site very useful. This is my first post here so go easy on my fragile male ego.

Are documents requiring control per 4.2.3 of the Standards only those relating to performance of processes relating to customer services and products?

I ask because some in our group are trying to include monthly status sheets employees provide to managers, VPN log-on instructions, instructions for consultants email signature, etc. I'm thinking these documents are outside of the scope of 4.2.3.


The whole point of doc control is simply to ensure that documents are correct, and remain correct and up to date. So, we have authorized people review and approve them. We control who gets them and what they can do with them. It is all to protect the integrity of the information.

If a document would benefit from this treatment, then it should probably be controlled. If the document does not need that, maybe it does not need control. The principle can be kept rather simple. The rest is up to you.

Thanks for all of the great ideas. In response to Carl's post, I should have used as example documents such as Casual Dress Guidelines.

The easy answer are those things listed in 4.2.1. Pay close attention to 4.2.1 d).

As Carl and others may suggest, often it is easy to turn the question upside down and ask,
"Why should this document be controlled? How does its presence or absence affect our quality management system? Specifically, how does it affect a product or service we provide to a customer?"

Often there is a glimmer or a seed of reason why it should be controlled (I hope we are operating under the same definition of control - restrictions on who may create, approve, alter, copy, print, or read a document.) Control is different from management. If the concept isn't clear, let's take it up in a new thread.

Wes

I always agree with you, but I'd replace the word quality with business.

I ask "How does it affect our business management system?"

I also say "If I took that document and destroyed it and all copies so no once could ever find it again, would it matter to the business?"

If they say No, I ask "Then why are you doing it?"

Is it any wonder people never invite me to their parties?

Wes

I always agree with you, but I'd replace the word quality with business.

I ask "How does it affect our business management system?"

I also say "If I took that document and destroyed it and all copies so no once could ever find it again, would it matter to the business?"

If they say No, I ask "Then why are you doing it?"

Is it any wonder people never invite me to their parties?Guests who bring lots of good liquor as a gift to the host are always invited back! (regardless of their politics):biglaugh: :lol: