Guys, I received this email this morning from a company that we do business with. My first question to the company is what type of pollution threat are we talking about? Air, Stormwater??? I guess I can contact the cardboard company and ask for the chemical content.
What are your thoughts on this?

Tim:confused:

/// is pleased to announce that we have successfully undergone and obtained the ISO 14001:2004 & 9001:2000. The ISO14001 details conformity to the Environmental Management System via on-going projects to adhere to environmental protection.

It has been identified that one of the core concerns of our sector is the possible high pollution threat of carton boxes. As such for a start, we would require a comprehensive report on the chemical content of the carton boxes utilized by your own good self.

Guys, I received this email this morning from a company that we do business with. My first question to the company is what type of pollution threat are we talking about? Air, Stormwater??? I guess I can contact the cardboard company and ask for the chemical content.
What are your thoughts on this?

Tim:confused:

/// is pleased to announce that we have successfully undergone and obtained the ISO 14001:2004 & 9001:2000. The ISO14001 details conformity to the Environmental Management System via on-going projects to adhere to environmental protection.

It has been identified that one of the core concerns of our sector is the possible high pollution threat of carton boxes. As such for a start, we would require a comprehensive report on the chemical content of the carton boxes utilized by your own good self.
This seems a little over the top to me. I would send them an MSDS and be done with it.

This seems a little over the top to me. I would send them an MSDS and be done with it.

An MSDS for a cardboard box? I think the OP needs to go back to the customer and get more information, and find out precisely why the customer is concerned about cardboard boxes.

I ran into a RoHS issue with lead based ink on cartons, and the glue used at the seams can also out-gas.

The paper itself is often washed in chemicals during processing that may out-gas.

But other than the lead based ink, where there might be a RoHS concern, I can't see how this would be a huge issue for any company. Maybe a call to them would help clarify what they're concerned about.

Guys, I replyed to the email. Here is the email.

Kathy,
Before I really get into this I first need to know from /// percisly why are they concerned about cardboard pollution. Are we talking about Air, Stormwater,???.
ISO-9000 :2004 standards are concerned as to the manufacturing of cardboard and the pollution that it can create, however; once cardboard it sent to a company, the concern turns to, "how waste is generated and how do you handle generated waste"?

Tim

What are your thoughts on this?
For one thing that their most significant environmental aspects cannot be too bad if they are so interested in carton boxes...

/Claes

I tottaly agree Claves!

I explained to the person that asked ,that I can get an MSDS for the Cardboard, but we here in our facility are more concerned with the generated waste from the cardboard when it comes to stormwater pollution.

Tim

All,

I have been very involved with the RoHS/WEEE efforts where I work (I am the only one actually taking it seriously - seemingly). There are a number of issues within RoHS/WEEE that could be impacted by cardboard carton use. Both of these acts in the EU pertain not only to the use of the product and it's chemical contents, but also to the Waste stream generated in that use - including the packaging. This goes so far as to make it manditory that if you sell within the EU (and cooperating countries) you must provide for disposal/recycling of all parts of your product and it's packaging, not just those with the banned or controlled chemicals. Your are required to have contracts with recycling cooperatives (or other means of recycling/reuse) and provide detailed directions on the breakdown and recycle/reuse of all materials sold.

If this company requiring "more info" has written into their EMS that they are RoHS/WEEE Compliant and will maintain such, then they will need to provide documentation down to the wet chemistry level proving thier products and packaging are compliant. It is also possible, if they MANUFACTURE, or provide subassemblies for MANUFACTURE, in the EU that they have other legal/EMS requirements and will need to satisfy other regulatory requirements for chemical composition and disposal. (This, fortunately is not something I have to deal with - at the moment...)

The RoHS/WEEE (and therefore the ISO14001 impact) is a big deal to many companies - including mine. We are actually disqualifying otherwise good suppliers for some programs (large) because we cannot become RoHS/WEEE Compliant using their processes and products. The entire RoHS/WEEE "system" of documentation is a "trickle down" system. Each step of the manufacture process is expected to be responsible for it's parts and wastes, with the final product sales company having overall responsibility for making sure "all the troops are in line".

And be warned, the EU has already began inflicting punishment for violation. Large Corporations have lost Millions in potential sales, and spent more in shipping as they are caught "not in compliance".

my :2cents: worth....

Brian

Your are required to have contracts with recycling cooperatives (or other means of recycling/reuse) and provide detailed directions on the breakdown and recycle/reuse of all materials sold.
Good point Brian. I didn't think about that, but you are right. We put a lot of effort into controlling these things, too.

/Claes

Look at the Packaging Directive, 94/62/EC, for your answer.

I beleive the first thing, we as the supplier need, to determine is 1- Is this person asking because ISO14001 related issues and if so, what are the issues related too. 2nd- Is the supplier asking bucause RoHS related issues. Once this is determined then we as the supplier can proceed.

Thanks Brain for the imput. I havn't concidered RoHS. This is a vital area.

Tim

An MSDS for a cardboard box? I think the OP needs to go back to the customer and get more information, and find out precisely why the customer is concerned about cardboard boxes.
James certainly there is an MSDS for cardboard. Why must you be so cynical? Here is an example of one from a company.

James certainly there is an MSDS for cardboard. Why must you be so cynical? Here is an example of one from a company.

I wasnt' suggesting that there wasn't such an animal, only expressing minor incredulity that it could actually be useful for something other than satisfying the requirement for it to exist:D .

I wasnt' suggesting that there wasn't such an animal, only expressing minor incredulity that it could actually be useful for something other than satisfying the requirement for it to exist:D .
Pretty silly isn't it? Tee hee.

Itotally agree!:bonk:
Tim

I wasnt' suggesting that there wasn't such an animal, only expressing minor incredulity that it could actually be useful for something other than satisfying the requirement for it to exist:D .I particularly like the worthless disclaimer.

One's own good self would have to wonder: if they're so concerned about the environmental impact of the cartons you use to ship their product to them, what do they intend to do with the cartons after emptying them, just throw them in the trash?

I recall (although off topic for this thread) that in the late 80's and early 90's the US Military cautioned us to be especially carefull about how we stored are silver and silver plated parts (heatsinks, connectors, etc.) because the high sulfur content of the cardboard could interact with the silver. Therefore we could not use cardboard boxes to ship and store silver parts without first lining the cardboard box with plastic film or wrapping the parts in sealed plastic. :nopity:

James certainly there is an MSDS for cardboard. Why must you be so cynical? Here is an example of one from a company.

But how do they get the 35 liter flask of Dewar's scotch into a 3 x 3 x 2 inch box? :biglaugh:

But how do they get the 35 liter flask of Dewar's scotch into a 3 x 3 x 2 inch box? :biglaugh:
An intern must have come up witht he formulation.

My customer also request same thing need carton box sgs test and many more label, plastic bag, wrapping plastic and also ink we use. I firstly confuse why they request this thing? But they are our customer so need follow they requirement.

"Customer always right" Isn't???

My customer also request same thing need carton box sgs test and many more label, plastic bag, wrapping plastic and also ink we use. I firstly confuse why they request this thing? But they are our customer so need follow they requirement.

"Customer always right" Isn't???

There are regulations across the European Union for what packaging materials are allowed to contain. In the UK these are implemented as The Packaging (Essential Requirements) Regulations 2003. (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20031941.htm)

The logic is that whatever people put in their packaging (in whatever country) if it is imported into the EU ends up in EU landfill or recycling streams so if you prohibit the chemicals from being in packaging materials you don't have to clean up the result.

From my understanding, the fundamental environmental impact of cardboard is that it is not infinitely recyclable. This is because each time it goes through the process, the fibers get smaller, until they become useless. That is one basis behind going to returnable dunnage. Many of the thermoplastics can have good recyclability when they reach their end of life. If, that is, they reach their end of life. Some end up in people's garages and basements. :notme:

Not that shipping empty containers about the world is equally as effective environmentally...:cool: