Hi everyone,
I am Quality Engineer in a tractor manufacturing factory and we are trying to establish Quality Management System and I wonder if dying process should be defined as a special process or not? If it is a special process why? If it is not why? Could you help me about this issue?
:thanx:

Hi everyone,
I am Quality Engineer in a tractor manufacturing factory and we are trying to establish Quality Management System and I wonder if dying process should be defined as a special process or not? If it is a special process why? If it is not why? Could you help me about this issue?
:thanx:
Welcome to the cove.:bigwave:
As you have posted this in the TS forum whether dyeing is a special process or not is irrelevant as all process need to validated see 7.5.2.1.
For ISO9001 I think that as the process is only to colour the cloth and this can be non destructively tested it is not but I think that all processes should be controlled in some manners as described in 7.6.2.
One thing I think that as a supplier to the tractor industry you are not able to register to TS, see here
http://iaob.org/iso_ts16949_faq.html

Processes are defined by you. It is possible to run a business under a quality system while only defining one process. Personally, I would not be comfortable defining only one process and would try to outline in a practical way what our company does. Your "dying" process could stand alone or it could be part of an overall "Product Realization Process". If, for example, you dyed a material as part of every job order (only enough material for that job), you might consider it a process step and include it in the larger process. If you dyed material and put it into stock for later use on many jobs, it may be better described as a process on its own.

I use the following logic. Can the larger process be done without the "dying"? If so, consider "dying" as a sub-process not used on every job. If not, then it is a part of the larger process and should be included as a "step".

Dave

Processes are defined by you.
Dave
Dave,
I am sorry but I think that you have missed the point. The question is about special processes.
I would not be comfortable defining only one process and would try to outline in a practical way what our company does. Your "dying" process could stand alone or it could be part of an overall "Product Realization Process". If, for example, you dyed a material as part of every job order (only enough material for that job), you might consider it a process step and include it in the larger process. If you dyed material and put it into stock for later use on many jobs, it may be better described as a process on its own.

I use the following logic. Can the larger process be done without the "dying"? If so, consider "dying" as a sub-process not used on every job. If not, then it is a part of the larger process and should be included as a "step".

I agree with all you said about the way to define processes

OK, Thanks Howard. Sorry if I misled you selsensoy.

I guess my brain wasn't awake early enough :>) I hope it is just temporary.

Dave

Hi everyone,
I am Quality Engineer in a tractor manufacturing factory and we are trying to establish Quality Management System and I wonder if dying process should be defined as a special process or not? If it is a special process why? If it is not why? Could you help me about this issue?
:thanx:If you can verify your process without destroying the product it is not a special process. Please tell us a little more about your dyeing process so that we can help you better. What are the basic steps and how do you determine conformity to the requirements?

If you can verify your process without destroying the product it is not a special process. Please tell us a little more about your dyeing process so that we can help you better. What are the basic steps and how do you determine conformity to the requirements?

Hi!

We have 3 requirements for the conformity in dying process.
1-All parts of the tractor body should have been dyed.
2-the paint should not come in great amounts if so we scrape the paint (destroying the paint), sandpaper and re-dying
3-Some parts of the tractor body should have not been dyed because of assemblying if they had been dyed the paint is removed for assembly in the next process.
According to the items mentioned above is our dying process is a special process or not?
:thanx:

Hi!

We have 3 requirements for the conformity in dying process.
1-All parts of the tractor body should have been dyed.
2-the paint should not come in great amounts if so we scrape the paint (destroying the paint), sandpaper and re-dying
3-Some parts of the tractor body should have not been dyed because of assemblying if they had been dyed the paint is removed for assembly in the next process.
According to the items mentioned above is our dying process is a special process or not?
:thanx:To answer that, we need to know if all the above can be measured or checked without destroying the paint. Items 1 & 3 seem to be able to be verified by visual inspection so they would not be an issue. That leaves item 2. What is your criteria for "great amounts of paint" and how do you measure this?

To answer that, we need to know if all the above can be measured or checked without destroying the paint. Items 1 & 3 seem to be able to be verified by visual inspection so they would not be an issue. That leaves item 2. What is your criteria for "great amounts of paint" and how do you measure this?

Hi again,

for the item 2 we don't measure, we make visual inspection if the paint has leaked or not because of the "great amounts of paint"
:thanx:

The whole idea of a special process is in my view an artifical division.
The requirements odf the standard 7.5.2 are sensible requirements for all processes base on the concept of prevention rather than detection.
Why make artifical divisions.
The requirement of TS that 7.5.2 applies to all processes is one of the areas of sanity in the standard