Hi,

Concerning TS16949

If we don’t reach one or more (quality) goals, placed in our business plan objectives (e.g. reduce scrap from 5% to 3%), and it’s not a customer specific requirement. Can we get a nonconformity during the audit for this?

Thanks in advance for a reply.

Hi,

Concerning TS16949

If we don’t reach one or more (quality) goals, placed in our business plan objectives (e.g. reduce scrap from 5% to 3%), and it’s not a customer specific requirement. Can we get a nonconformity during the audit for this?

Thanks in advance for a reply.

There shouldn't be an NC for that in particular, any more than there should be one for any other NC output from any other process. What you need to be able to show is that A) you recognize the shortfall, and B) you've either reevaluated the goal, or done something to the process to make it more capable of reaching the goal.

Hi Filip,

If you don't review the business plan objetives and you don't analyze improvement actions or other actions in your objetive you could get a non conformity in 8.5.1.
But I think so MArk that it shouldn't be an Non conformity for that in particular

Think about what a goal is: It is something you strive for. If you fail to achieve that goal, what do you do? I would expect some sort of reaction within the organization. Perhaps an adjustment to the goal, or perhaps altering your plan to achieve the goal. If there is no reaction, then one could argue that the QMS (EMS) is not effectively implemented or maintained.

It should NOT be a nonconformance......maybe an opportunity for improvement......but of course your company already knew that......

Zeissuser

and why not? If you've had management set an objective and the process failed to deliver and there's no action plan to address why (even if it's a re-setting of an overly agressive objective) then I'm thinking that management doesn't have it's "eyes on the prize".:jawdrop:

Let's out this into perspective: If the reduction of scrap is worth $500,000 then it should be a non-conformance:yes: If it's worth $150, then why's it an objective? :mg:

We are in danger of labelling things to 'get past an audit' and instead of looking at all the facts, hoping that by calling an apple another name, we don't have to count it:eek:

Don't dress these issues up guys and girls, we need more data. Don't go putting perfume on a pig now...........:lol:

How much is this scrap worth annually??

Andy

There shouldn't be an NC for that in particular, any more than there should be one for any other NC output from any other process. What you need to be able to show is that A) you recognize the shortfall, and B) you've either reevaluated the goal, or done something to the process to make it more capable of reaching the goal.


I agree fully. I have written nonconformities because 50% of the KPI's showed negative trends, and there was no record management noticed or did anything about it. But in hundreds of audits, I have never written an nc that a goal was missed. That seems unreasonable.

Let me clarify what I said earlier.......There DOES need to be an action plan in place to address why they didn't meet their goals.........but there DOES NOT need to be a nonconformance written by the registrar or the Auditor.
ok...lets say there is not an action plan to address this issue......then write an opportunity for improvement and follow up on the next audit.

ZeissUser