I am currently making wire harnesses in house. Normally, we do that until we get a product up to a certain shipment level and then move the harness assembly to our preferred supplier.

Under Section I.3.1 Customer Notification
Change of subcontractor for parts, non-equivalent materials, or services (e.g.: heat-treating, plating) that affect customer fit, form function, durability, or performance requirements
Suppliers are responsible for approval of subcontracted material and services that do not affect fit, form, function, durability, or performance requirements.

I will move my wire harness assembly to a supplier, specifying the exact wire, connectors, etc. I will go through a PPAP with my supplier. The fit, form function, durability and performance (i.e. the customer's print) of the end product (big black box with this harness, among other things, stuffed inside) will not change one iota.

Do I NEED to notify my customer?
SHOULD I notify my customer?
Would YOU notify YOUR customer?

I will move my wire harness assembly to a supplier, specifying the exact wire, connectors, etc. I will go through a PPAP with my supplier. The fit, form function, durability and performance (i.e. the customer's print) of the end product (big black box with this harness, among other things, stuffed inside) will not change one iota.

The requirement addresses parts/assemblies that have the potential to affect customer happiness.

Do I NEED to notify my customer?
SHOULD I notify my customer?
Would YOU notify YOUR customer?

"Yes" to all three, imo.

I concur completely with Jim. Even if you believe (through your supplier PPAP submission) that there is no change in the end product, I am sure that most (if not all) of us have encounted unanticipated reprecussions from a process change.

Notify your customer (in advance) of the upcoming change, and be sure to word it in a way that supports your decision. Be very careful of using words like 'improved efficiency', 'reduced costs', etc....they may well come back and ask you to SHARE in those improvements.

I have to agree with Jim and Ron that customer notification is required. Over the years, I've seen too many instances when even moving production from 1 machine to a 2nd of the same model and make has resulted in producing in specification parts that have a different distribution than those of the original.

Icy,
The consensus is yes.
If you do not tell your customer and he wants to audit your manufact5uring process what will you tell him?

In addition, it should be noted that the 4th Edition PPAP manual which is scheduled for March 1 '06 release (so they say) eliminates the instances given in the 3rd Edition where it's permissible to make certain changes without notifying the customer (or so I've been told by a reliable source). Having been on both sides of the fence (now on the customer side) I understand the reluctance to notify and the desire to let sleeping dogs lie, but as Kevin says, as a customer representative there have been too many instances where we've found out about nominally inocuous changes the hard way--after something blows up.

:thanks:
I have a TS surveillance audit today and tomorrow so I'm tied up. I'll be back with more but my registrar auditor concurs with the Cove consensus.

:thanks:
I have a TS surveillance audit today and tomorrow so I'm tied up. I'll be back with more but my registrar auditor concurs with the Cove consensus.
We are not just pretty faces:bigwave:

We are not just pretty faces:bigwave:
LOL! LOL!

We are not just pretty faces - LOL! LOL!

One place I worked we would marry a mold to a machine.
(always run it in a particular machine)

Sometimes the exact same machine right next to it would have trouble running that mold? - you wouldn't think it would be a process change?

One place I worked we would marry a mold to a machine.
(always run it in a particular machine)

Sometimes the exact same machine right next to it would have trouble running that mold? - you wouldn't think it would be a process change?
In the 2nd edition a change of machine was a reason to re PPAP. Edition 3 changed that slightly but it is not for nothing that the Control plan asks for the machine.
No 2 machines can ever be the same, wear, oil, calibration ete etc.
One of the important factors is all stable process is the machine and if this changes the process changes.
It could be environment, a draught could affect the performance of a border line mould critically.
For you it is important to validate your production process, in the end you pay for the scrap.