I HV SOME QUESTION IN MIND.
1. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF PPAP SUBMISSION
2.WHAT ARE THE BENIFITS OF PPAP SUBMISSION TO SUPPLIER AND CUSTOMER
3.DOES IT AVOIDS REJECTION AT CUSTOMER END
4.can anyone give quantifiable benifits

The purpose of the PPAP procedure is to document that development and validation of the part and the production process.
The benefits to the customer are that he receives in an organised manner all the information he needs and for the supplier that he knows what he is required to produce.
None of this prevents rejection of the PPAP. To ensure this one needs to manage the development in a proper manner and implement all the actions that are foreseen ion the planning mode.

THANKS FOR REPLY Howard
refering to point no 3, i mean to say componenr rejection and not ppap rejection

OK,
Do you mean rejection of the Part in the future?
If so then your continual adherence to the approved process is what will ensure conformity of the part. This is true whether you supply PPAP or not.

my question was so because, my boss asked me we are doing ppap then why there is a rejection. his meaning was ppap should stop part rejections or we are failing to check/ review ppap properly OR we are not able to guide the supplier while submitting ppap.
hence i am confused. please elaborate on this

There are several reasons why parts are rejected even if you or your supplier has provided PPAP.
As we all know there is a gap between what we say and what we do. It is possible that the supplier is not acting as he said he would.
Another reason could be that not all the failure modes were seen in the FMEA and thus the controls are not in place to prevent or detect them.
Look at the non conformances and see if the reason why they occurred is because there was no control or the control was not effective.
This is why the FMEA should be updated when there has been a non conformance.
Does this help?

thank you

To also put in my two cents from what Howard said (which was awesome).
Purpose: To ensure process variables, variances, severity of occurrences, process validation, has been addressed and proofed. - to put in elementary terms.

Benefits: The same as purpose turned to a positive fashion. It ensures you can run a product at the best quality and delivery possible - to put in elementary terms again.

It will avoid rejections if you run an all automated system. There are still going to be variables you will not control. But if the severities are extreme you should take steps as a manufacturer to ensure you reduce the risk of failures to the point where you reduce those variables. And you have a corrective action process in place to try and prevent from happening again. This is all part of APQP and PPAP themselves.


REJECTIONS from PPAP: Sounds to me as if the DFMEA/PFMEA portion(s) of PPAP wasn't put together quite well in the Pre Production/QPQP - PPAP process. If you are seeing rejects then Failure Modes and Severities weren't addressed at a multifunctional arena or completed sufficiently?

I have great knowledge of PPAP and APQP, so please feel free to e-mail me and I can give more info and tools/examples to use. It's been a couple of years since I've done the automotive world but it's like riding a bike. Do you have specifics you are dealing with that I may help you with?

On a personal level I LOVE PPAP and APQP, it makes sense to me. I would use it more here if we weren't a job shop.

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but...

1. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF PPAP SUBMISSION

Here's what AIAG says, in the 3rd Edition PPAP manual:

The purpose of PPAP is to determine if all customer engineering design record and specification requirements are properly understood by the supplier and that the process has the potential to produce product consistently meeting these requirements during an actual production run at the quoted production rate.

2.WHAT ARE THE BENIFITS OF PPAP SUBMISSION TO SUPPLIER AND CUSTOMER

For the customer, see the response to #1 above. For the supplier, see the same. Note that the PPAP submission, and its underlying production run provide evidence of potential, not guarantees that nothing will ever go wrong. The PPAP package is a Kodak Moment--a "snapshot."

3.DOES IT AVOIDS REJECTION AT CUSTOMER END

No. Providing evidence of the ability to produce conforming product doesn't mean that product will always conform.

4.can anyone give quantifiable benifits

Yes, to at least the extent that it enables you to sell products to companies that require PPAP submissions.

Purpose of PPAP is to avoid Quality cost as well as DO the thing in organised manner

Thanks for valuable information.

I will app. that.

getting the things

As u say

Is it correct that PPAP & APQP reduces reduction?

If it is right mail me tools & procedure required for that.

As u say

Is it correct that PPAP & APQP reduces reduction?

If it is right mail me tools & procedure required for that.

The idea is that if you have planned the part and the process then the learning curve will be very short.
This means an automatic saving of initial costs, this is a result of the APQP, not the PPAP which just documents the work done.
There are a number of attachments here (http://elsmar.com/Forums/fileslist.php?mode=allfiles&sortby=forum&pageamt=6) about APQP but essentially APQP is a road map for project management.
Cover the topics in the list.

but in morden world where time is a many

do u thing that its extansive documentation little bit time consuming

When you do something you document the action, how you document is your choice.
If you do not do it then it will cost you money!

Agree with Howard. The level of documentation can be varied based on organisational requirements. In fact, most people get scared of documentation without understanding its worth.

Documentation makes the system transparent.

im quite new and not very familiar with PPAP. My question is, can we issue a quality notice to our supplier when they said that the rejected parts were part of the ppap samples?

please advice. thanx.

Welcome
If the parts were submitted as PPAP samples but are not compliant with requirements then you reject the PPAP.
This is more effective that sending a complaint

Does this help?

PPAP signed samples necessarily do not reflect the product being produced. During the Launch stage, we submit PPAP information to our customer for dimensional approval and AAR. In my field (plastics), processes tend to change, for that reason, we request boundary samples from our customer in order to establish a better criteria; these samples are taken during the initial 30 days of production . This helps your boss stop making references to what the PPAP samples look like. It is a way to establish a robust criteria in your production floor.

PPAP signed samples necessarily do not reflect the product being produced. During the Launch stage, we submit PPAP information to our customer for dimensional approval and AAR. In my field (plastics), processes tend to change, for that reason, we request boundary samples from our customer in order to establish a better criteria; these samples are taken during the initial 30 days of production . This helps your boss stop making references to what the PPAP samples look like. It is a way to establish a robust criteria in your production floor.

Welcome to the cove

The samples that you describe are not PPAP samples rather as you say a dialog between customer and supplier

You sign on the following declaration on the warrant
I hereby affirm that the samples represented by this warrant are representative of our parts which were made by a process that meets all Production Part Approval Process Manual 4th Edition Requirements. I further affirm that these samples were produced at the production rate of X\Yhours. I also certify that documented evidence of such compliance is on file and available for review. I have noted any deviations from the declaration below.

im sorry. the samples were NOT the PPAP samples, but the samples before the PPAP approval...so can i issue a quality notice?

thank you all for your replies.

im sorry. the samples were NOT the PPAP samples, but the samples before the PPAP approval...so can i issue a quality notice?

thank you all for your replies.

You can do what ever you wish, but first try to decide what you actually want and what you actions will achieve.
If these were samples and there were problems with them, what will you achieve by sending a complaint (I understand "quality notice" as complaint)
To send feedback as to what was wrong with them and requests for improvements is the best way to go as you want to try and build a good working relationship with your suppliers.

I always believe that the velvet glove should be used before the iron fist

:topic:

i tried searching for information regarding 'high-risk suppliers' but did not came across a satisfying answer. Can anyone help me on this? How or what are the factors to consider in identifying high-risk suppliers?

:thanx:

:topic:

i tried searching for information regarding 'high-risk suppliers' but did not came across a satisfying answer. Can anyone help me on this? How or what are the factors to consider in identifying high-risk suppliers?

:thanx:

Hi Loraine,

You asked the same question in this thread (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?p=228903#post228903) and you'll find responses there.

Stijloor.

Kedar, Sushant,

I see that you are from Purchase and Quality functions. Let me say something here that might practically help. If this sounds unpalatable, kindly excuse me.

Yes. PPAP is a process resulting in some documentation that is finally expected to improve incoming part quality, reduce rejections, enable dock to stock, JIT, directly on line, ...

Two basic requirements need to be satisfied to make this happen:

The supplier should know what is a PPAP, what it is done for, how to do it and how to present the output.

The customer should be competent to evaluate and accept / reject the supply offer on the basis of the documentation submitted. And he should bother to utilise his competence.

Where both are inexistant, the documents are generated and stocked to satisfy the auditors - they obviously would not give any of the expected results.

Many organisations find themselves in such a situation. Are you?

A couple of observations: The supplier should know what is a PPAP, what it is done for, how to do it and how to present the output.
Suppliers should be aware that PPAP is the output of the APQP process, and if they're not doing APQP they shouldn't be doing PPAP either.
The customer should be competent to evaluate and accept / reject the supply offer on the basis of the documentation submitted. And he should bother to utilise his competence.
PPAP should be evaluated on the basis of the documentation and sample parts submitted. It's usually not a good idea to reject a PPAP submission outright if the parts are in conformance and there are problems with the paperwork. It's best to have an interim (conditional) approval process in place to deal with those situations.

PPAP should be evaluated on the basis of the documentation and sample parts submitted. It's usually not a good idea to reject a PPAP submission outright if the parts are in conformance and there are problems with the paperwork. It's best to have an interim (conditional) approval process in place to deal with those situations.

Till somehing caled PPAP was designed by some visionary men and was thrust down the throats of equally unsuspecting customers and suppliers, supplier selection and evaluation was always based on submission of sample parts.

Fantastically conformant samples can be (and are) submitted when the process is totally incapable of producing them. Similarly, fantastically conformant PPAPs also can be submitted when the recipient knows zilch about what they contain. Fantastically non-conformant PPAPs become conformant when the recipient is desperate to declare them as conformant.

In my post I said I was being practical not necesarily ideal or palatable.

I will post this question here although it is more APQP than PPAP- through AIAG they have a cd that contains numerous APQP forms- the one in particular that I am interested in is the APQP Sign-Off Worksheet. I can't find an example of that in the new manual and it cost 1k to get the cd that contains it- but doesn't give a description of it. We need a document for upper management sign off on new products- maybe as part of or prior to the first gate elements. We use the design checklist but that does not require upper management signature- we can make a form up easily enough, I was just curious what the APQP sign off worksheet was and if anyone uses it.

Thanks!

Is this the one it is from the core tools dated march of this year.

NOTE: Copyrighted document removed. Sorry, folks... Marc