There's a lot of information about what to include in the discussions at management review of the quality management system, but I'm interested to know who takes the lead role in the presentation? How long do the reviews take and what sorts of action assignments do top management leave with?

Andy

I am sure that this one will generate a lot of heated discussion about the responsibilities of management.

I have always taken the lead in the Management Review, both in the presentation and interpretation of the data, but I have always identified where appropriate actions must be taken by management and ensured that these actions were completed by the responsible parties.

Obviously this will not always work in all management cultures, but it has worked for me. I think the key take away, is that you need to adapt the MR to the management culture. I have seen other MR's where different managers covered different portions of the review that were less effective because the managers didn't see the point.

If the culture is there, many different formats will work. If it is not, most will not work.

As the Management Rep for TS, I take the lead, guide and conduct most of the questioning and review of the inputs by the senior managers. This is in additionn to obtaining the back up documentation and verification we answered all the requirements. The President decides the actual date when we will have the meetings on a quarterly basis.

I'm the Quality Manager, (ISO9001/13485), and I seem to do all the organising and talking, the CEO sits there and pass comment. Other members of the management team provide information, i.e. production provide despatch information, sales provide turnover, quality provides reject information. I have support from everyone. Meetings last about 1.5 hours once a quarter.
As a comparison, my last company (ISO9001/AS9100/17025) had managment reviews by proxy! With no-one attending, I had to collate and distribute all the information, and then action people accordingly. It used to take me about a day to do it all. Needless to say, they are now struggling to survive. And I left a year ago.
Paul

Our managment review is very structured. Each processs owner presents and I (Quality Manager) take the notes for the action items. Our reviews last about 5-6 hours meeting at least twice per year.

Ours had changed drastically since the beginning - early into certification it was putting Management around a table and me presenting information to them about the system. A few years back I started a different method which has proved to be much better. About 30 days before our scheduled review I start informing Top Management that they need to put together their information for presentation during the review - I also remind them of the goals/projects etc that were identified during the internal audit - and that they will need to bring information as to if the goals were met, if not why? New goals etc. I do the same thing with the Quality information info such as internal audits, corrective action, customer data etc. I have them provide me with copies of their presentation about a week before the meeting - These presentation get "binded" into booklet form with an agenda/schedule/signature sheet etc and serve as the "minutes" for our meeting. So far it seems to be working great.

I should be so lucky. No review here. Just write the documents to meet an audit. After the audit leave it alone until the next customer wants to "audit" us. Improvement projects are completely ad hoc and often at cross purposes.

I should be so lucky. No review here. Just write the documents to meet an audit. After the audit leave it alone until the next customer wants to "audit" us. Improvement projects are completely ad hoc and often at cross purposes.

Are you talking about a 'registered company'.............:mg:

Andy

You mean a company with one of those cute little certificates...... YES


To be honest I really belive that operating a company in today's buisness climate requires an orginized, continuous effort towards improvement of the organizations processes. But from were I sit, the certificate is relativly meanigless unless you happen to purchase product produced with a moth or so of the auditors visit.

what your external auditor has been smoking when they visit??:mg:
:lol:
Andy

Had our quarterly review today (albeit late by 2 months due to availability of personnel - benchmarking trips in December and me on 18001 training in January) and it was 40 minutes. Granted the informal review was conducted each month by me via the issuance of emails on the status of items on the review's agenda.

I prepare the information, analyze the data, presente recommendations to the Management Committee and they make the decisions and agree to the action items generated.

My job as a management rep is to facilitate the meeting...their job is to discuss the issues and decide on actions.

I was going to add my two cents worth, but Roxane summed up rather nicely what I do also. :agree1:

As frustrating as it is sometimes, as Management Rep/ Quality Manager most of the talking is done by me, relaying facts and figures. The agenda for the meeting is right out of the standard. Sometimes there is a few questions, but I really don't think the action that should be taken based on the review is. I don't feel it is my duty to be judge, jury AND executioner!

At my last facility management review was a continuous process of monitoring the "quality" system. There was no scheduled time or place to hold a management review session. As part of the system, individual department managers continually monitored key measurables as required by the continuous improvement process and goals stated in the Policy/Procedure manual. As Management Rep. I was responsible for gathering the data and monitoring progress in meeting goals and issuing corrective actions as appropriate. My results were reported to the President of the company in case I needed a "persuasive voice" in process correction and improvement.

We also had a reciprical internal audit system whereby 4 nearby companies audited each others management involvement/commitment to the documented quality system.

Al...

and in addition to the metrics and performance against goals, how do the results of audits figure??...........;)

Andy

After the audit closout meeting (internal or external) and the auditor departs, the management group sits in session to review the results. The first part was usually the finger pointing and CYA. The last part of the meeting was to define any improvement goals, whether from the auditor or our president. These are then added to the continuous improvement program already in place. Next we review the noncompliances which are then moved to the regular corrective action process (8D). For the CA a representative from another department leads the corrective action for the noncompliant department. While that may seem to be a lack of trust on the noncompliant department it actually acts to increase awareness of other departmental practices and improves communication. As MR I monitored progress and closed out CA when completed.

Al...

We currently are conducting management reviews once a month with the upper management and the managers of each department. Data is presented using Power Point . I do most of the talking during the presentation of the data. If there is a problem it is noted and the upper management will then inquire as to what can be done to resolve the issue and issue assignments as needed. This process is still in the adolescent stage, therefore we will continue to have the monthly meetings until expierence shows that we can accomplish what has been assigned without prodding. We intend to then go quarterly, then at 6 month intervals.

You mean a company with one of those cute little certificates...... YES


To be honest I really belive that operating a company in today's buisness climate requires an orginized, continuous effort towards improvement of the organizations processes. But from were I sit, the certificate is relativly meanigless unless you happen to purchase product produced with a moth or so of the auditors visit.


Very disappointing to hear. I don't think that is an indictment of ISO as a tool, because there are many good companies out there.

But, I predict that both your company and the CB will eventually pay for these sins. It may not be this year or the next, but the American business landscape is littered with the shells of former high-flying companies who cheated one way or another. I've seen it dozens of times just among companies I know about. One's sins eventually catch up...

Getting back to the original question, remember that there is no requirement for management review meetings. If management uses a method other than a meeting, then others might not be aware of what management uses, or when the review occurs.

Getting back to the original question, remember that there is no requirement for management review meetings. If management uses a method other than a meeting, then others might not be aware of what management uses, or when the review occurs.

Good point. If a meeting is not done to conduct the review then I guess no one does the speaking per se. Of course, depending on the number of confused looks in the room an the tempermental nature of our computer system, I've often considered resorting to either interpretive dance or shadow puppets for Management Review.

I've often considered resorting to either interpretive dance or shadow puppets for Management Review. THAT I would pay money to see! :lol:

Management Review is one of those areas that seem to grow a life of its own. The simple intent of MR is the review part. Its result is merely a document that proves that top management has considered the effectiveness of their management system periodically and are trying to improve where possible.

Meeting or no meeting, who talks and who doesn't, one page or many: the choice is made based on what works for the company.

The only real proof that your MR process is ineffective is when a top manager (when asked) is clueless as to what the management system is, how well it is performing, and any plans to improve it.

IMHBIO (in my humble but irrelevant opinion).

Getting back to the original question, remember that there is no requirement for management review meetings. If management uses a method other than a meeting, then others might not be aware of what management uses, or when the review occurs.


It might be possible to do a management review without a meeting, but I think it would be a real stretch. It woiuld have to go through a fine hole to still meet all the requirements. Could be done but misses the intent of ISO (ref. cl5.5.2.c, all of 5.6, particularly 5.6.1 - records shall be kept (records of what if there was no meeting?).

It could be a report, but misses the intent opf discussion and decision making.

(for those of you who have seen the John Cleese video):lol:
Yes, meetings not required, per se, but I anticipated that if the MR gets enough grief just putting a meeting together and getting participation, then doing a management review some other way wasn't going to work much better........:lmao:

Andy

We do MR as a monthly meeting of dept heads, and as the MR for our company, I generally serve as the "leader" of the meeting. Our president/owner will share in that as well. All dept heads are responsible for bringing in data on their portion of the QMS for review by the group. It was suggested to us as an OFI by our registrar to send the prepared data around to the participants prior to the meeting, but none of us liked that, as we see no added value to a pre-review of the review. After we've reviewed everthing on the agenda and resolved any issues, I put out a report for the whole plant on the review.

ps. speaking of Cleese, PBS is running a special on MP this week. Pretty good stuff.

Our Management Reviews are structured to leave only decision making to the attendees.
All Review data and material is collected electronically, and structured against the agenda points by the Quality team and the respective process owners.
A link is then sent around all of the MR attendees a minimum of 1 week in advnce of the meeting, asking them to read and familiarise thenslves with the content as they will be required to take some decisions during the meeting.

Then at the meeting the process owner (who, most of the time knows the content, and has the answers to any questions) just presents his improvement proposals for decisions to be taken. If a decision is not possible then the task is carried over to the next monthl Management meeting where the process is done over again until a decision is reached.

This seems to work well for us!:bonk:

Celtic warrior