Hi Covers,

How do you all interpret the following:
1. Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the organization shall be third party registered to ISO 9001:2000 by an accredited third-party certification body.

If let's say, customer does not specify it's need on the QMS certification, and our supplier did get itself certified.

The question that's raised was what if my supplier certified to a CB that was accredited but the certificate they have applied does not come with accreditation logo.

Meaning that the CB may have been accredited, but the supplier is chosing not to certify to any accredited certification.

In this case, do my supplier fulfilled TS clause above? :confused:

Looking back at this, this will also mean that the certification my supplier hold does not get audited by any accreditation body when CB get audited, am I correct?

Please advise.

In this case, do my supplier fulfilled TS clause above?.Technically, the requirement is "satisfied". But not the intent. I doubt, however, they would ever get caught. Most customers are ignorant about checking for the validity of a supplier's management system certificate.

Looking back at this, this will also mean that the certification my supplier hold does not get audited by any accreditation body when CB get audited, am I correct?That is correct. An unaccredited certificate issued by an accredited registrar. A nice and shameful twist. Another loophole offered by some CB's. I started a thread sometime ago about this practice, but the thread did not get any "traction".

Technically, the requirement is "satisfied". But not the intent. I doubt, however, they would ever get caught. Most customers are ignorant about checking for the validity of a management system certificate.

That is correct. An unaccredited certificate issued by an accredited registrar. A nice and shameful twist. Another loophole offered by some CB's. I started a thread sometime ago about this practice, but the thread did not get any "traction".


Hi Sidney,

Thanks for your reply. I wonder how did IATF view on this?

Technically, we can't said our supplier is doing the wrong thing when we know they are not.....

That's real frustration...:bonk:

I found this interesting enquiry during my recent internal audit where I could see some of the supplier does get itself certified/ register to one of the accredited CB without accreditation logo print on the certificate given..

That's why it caught me in the middle when I asked for accreditation CB and the supplier claimed they are rightfully complying to TS requirement. That's quite get things in the hot situation....

Anyway, look's like I can't do anything technically speaking to those suppliers.......:read:

Again, thanks for the clarification.....

I wonder how did IATF view on this? Probably, the IATF is not aware of this practice.

Technically, we can't said our supplier is doing the wrong thing when we know they are not.....

I found this interesting enquiry during my recent internal audit where I could see some of the supplier does get itself certified/ register to one of the accredited CB without accreditation logo print on the certificate given..The supplier themselves might be oblivious to that. Some suppliers think that, by contracting with a accredited registrar, they would "automatically" get an accredited certificate. That works for many registrars, but not for some. Why don't you ask your suppliers why they did not get an accredited certificate? You might be surprised with their responses. And, if you have the guts, bring the facts to your local branch of the IATF. Who knows? They might clarify the intent of the requirement and put a stop to this despicable practice.

Hi Cheahga

Every additional logo in the cert. means additional cost. Example - the UKAS logo is about 150-200 British pounds. I know that auditors for the few big boys knows no other way to audit other than the relevant ISO standards. Which means they carry out the same audit irrespective of how many logos you requested or none at all.

Of course, black sheeps are around everywhere and you may be aware of them. If you have good reasons and the clout, can always go for a second party audit to satisfy your self and perhaps your organization. However, if your supplier had been performing well then you may have to give them the benefit of doubt.

...And, if you have the guts, bring the facts to your local branch of the IATF. Who knows? They might clarify the intent of the requirement and put a stop to this despicable practice.


I agree. The IATF is the only one who can force an approved TS CB to stop this. It makes a mockery of the whole integrity they work so hard to promote.

If let's say, customer does not specify it's need on the QMS certification, and our supplier did get itself certified.

The question that's raised was what if my supplier certified to a CB that was accredited but the certificate they have applied does not come with accreditation logo.
If the supplier has an unaccredited certificate it can mean one of two things.
The certification body is not accredited for your supplier's scope
Your supplier is saving costs by going for unaccredited certification

Either way this doesn't meet the spirit of TS requirements and I would point it out to your supplier.

Accredited certification bodies are "discouraged" from issuing unaccredited certificates - you are entitled to approach them directly and ask for the reasons.