OK guys I hate to admit it but I'm stumped. I'm trying to explain what this clause means to someone who needs to do an internal audit to it. I can't find the right words. I know what I look for but I'm having trouble conveying the message.

4.4.4 Environmental management system documentation The organization shall establish and maintain information, in paper or electronic form, to
a) describe the core elements of the management system and their interaction
b) provide direction to related documentation

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 31 July 2001).]

Hi Randy

I tend to explain 4.4.4 by saying that it provides a "road map" to end users to help them navigate through the system and find what they are looking for. It can be as simple as an index or as complex as an electronic based nagivational tool complete with hyperlinks etc. Hope this helps. Did you get my email?

I agree with PD. This clause sort of "walks" one through your processes. We addressed it by just paraphrasing the requirements for each section and identifying our relevant procedures.

A matrix or cross reference would work also.

In any event this approach withstood a doc.review by our registrar.

OK guys, how about a couple of audit questions other than the ones below.......

4.4.4a Does the organization have and maintain information (in paper or electronic form) to describe the core elements of the management system and their interaction?

4.4.4b Does the organization have and maintain information (in paper or electronic form) to provide direction to related documentation?

Other than beginning with "How does......," your questions are almost identical to questions from Registrars' checklist.Think if an auditor sees something that provides direction to what's available in the EMS system he/she will be ok with it.

Good luck

I tend to audit checklists from an end users point of view (after all, no matter how good your system is, at the end of the day you are totally reliant on people). I am not very fond of questions which simply regurgitate the exact requirement of the standard. Rather, I look for the intent behind the clause and build questions around it.

Off the top of my head (and I have just had a glass of cheeky chardonnay - Australian of course), I might consider these questions:

1. How do people find relevant information in your system (procedures, forms etc)?

2. Is your "navigational tool in hard copy or electronic format? Describe it.

I would then pick on a couple of different users, figure out what info they need to find (especially info that they don't use regularly like incident reports or emergency response procedures) and get them to locate the info. Naturally, this could be very straightforward or it could be quite involved.

[This message has been edited by PD (edited 03 August 2001).]

Not yet having had any formal training in ISO 14001 I find this site to be very helpful. Also I find myself referring constantly to the ISO 14000 series of standards; ISO 14004 is particularly helpful.
Para 4.3.3.2 of ISO 14004 provides a description of EMS documentation; everyone here appears to give basically the same description.
Being new at this, I guess my question would be, If it is a summary or roadmap of the system, why is it placed in the middle of the standard, instead of at the beginning?
Also we sre having our pre-assessment next month, if anyone has any pointers please pass them on. Thanks

Just make sure that procedures are followed. If a procedure states this or that will be done......do it!!

Take a good hard look and start trashing what you don't need or use. Get rid of redundancies and un-necessary crap.

Have good solid document control.

If you already have 9K in place don't waste time writing procedures that already exist (document control, corrective action, etc.). Adopt as much as possible. Reference already existing documents.

Keep procedures simple. Remember "easy to read means easy to implement".

Develop your communications (external as well as internal). COMMUNICATE!!!!!

Make sure everyone knows the essence of your Environmental Policy (Protect, Comply, Improve). Remember all the other words in the policy are gobblety goop.

People need to know the Significant Aspects and what they as individuals can do to improve on them. They also need to know the Aspects related to their specific job.

Have good solid Objectives and Targets. Have Targets you can quantify (chart or graph). Remember "If it can be measured, it can be managed". Don't be ambiguous.

Make sure everyone is on board. Implementing and maintaining an EMS requires everybody to be involved. It can't be done half-a--ed.

Advertise your successes to keep management and employees aware of your EMS efforts. Document benefits, no matter how small they may seem at the time. As this list grows, so will EMS support.

I guess that does it for now.

Good luck.


[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 03 August 2001).]

You're quite right Sam - it would make more sense to put it at the start - as it would make more sense to delete the reference to training records from 4.5.3 and put the requirement for such records back into 4.4.2

I can only offer the following explanation:

ISO is based in Geneva which is in the middle of Europe which itself is sandwiched on one side by US and on the other by Asia. Given that Europeans consider themselves to be the start point of all culture and art, it makes perfect sense to put the start point of 14001 in the middle of the document.

Seriously...who knows! There are, I think 70 odd countries represented on the technical committee responsible for drafting 14001 (I stand corrected) and the drafting process is one of compromise after compromise.

I personally think 14001 is a better document than 9001:2000 which I find repetitive and disjointed.

RANDY:
Our company is ISO 9000 registered (1994 version)
Our intention is to integrate ISO 14001:1996 clauses in our QMS Manual in order to request to our registrar the EMS registration.
Would you please give me some hints regarding this matter?
Thanks

In the back of the standard you will find a chart showing the realtionship between 14001 and 9000:1994, use it.

Once you integrate the corresponding elements, all you will need to do is devlope those that are parculiar to 14000 alone, such as regulatory requirements, your aspect identification and significant aspect management, objectives and targets, emergency preparedness, and all the other things. Combine the quality and environmental policy into one policy.

Use the same basic audit, corrective and preventive action, document control and that stuff which is in place.

Remember, whatever you do, you need to address all 17 required elements of the standard. How you address tham and to what extent is your business.

Don't re-invent the wheel. Keep it simple. ISO 14001 only has requirements for 14 procedures and most are in place with organizations have ISO 9000 in place.

I hope this helps. (I've never been to Venezuela)

[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 10 August 2001).]

Randy:
For Registration purpose:
Is it possible to write the two manuals (EMS and QMS ones) in just one of them?

Venezuela is a wonderful country but.., right now... Mr President Chavez invited Fidel Castro to stay in Venezuela (the Angel´s fall and its vecinities) during his birthday. Oh my God!
Thanks, Reinaldo

There is not a requirement for an EMS manual, but it is highly recommended. Don't take more than 1 page per element (17).

It would be best if you had both QMS and EMS integrated into the same manual (so many of the elements compliment each other (as I stated earlier).

It is totally up to you as to how you handle it. There is no right or wrong.

Fidel is too long in the tooth to be much trouble. I think he is slowing down and recognizes the failures of the system he tried to engineer. If we (Americans) would back off some and give him some space he may lighten and loosen up. He originally probably meant well for his people, but the folks he surrounded himself with, plus our arrogance bred distrust and hard feelings. (I can't believe I said that about a communist dictator).

Good luck with your effort, and if you need more information this forum is a great place to get help.

More questions will follow regarding EMS documentation.

1) About the Environmental Policy:
Is conformant to the ISO 14001 requirement to have an integrated quality and enviromental policy without the especific requirements 4.2 a), b), c) an so on and include them in a Environmental Declaration (substitute of the formal environmental policy as per 4.2. This declaration will be included in the EMS/QMS Manual for registration.