Who according to your criteria must create proccedures?

Do this person have a certified knoledge of the ISo TS?

Do this person have responsability or be owner of one proccess?....

Please feel free to participate

Typically, the process owner should create the procedure. If your ISO 9001 Management Representative is not responsible for the administration of the document control process, then the MR should not write the document.

Who according to your criteria must create proccedures?

Do this person have a certified knoledge of the ISo TS?

Do this person have responsability or be owner of one proccess?....

Please feel free to participate

Who ever has been given the authority and responsibility of the specific process. The QA Representative would only formalize as required.

The person generating the procedure should have a good knowledge of their process and an understanding of the requirements.

As stated, the process owner should have the initial responsibility of the procedure.


Coury Ferguson
Program/Contracts Manager

Who according to your criteria must create proccedures?

Do this person have a certified knoledge of the ISo TS?

Do this person have responsability or be owner of one proccess?....

Please feel free to participate

the process owner....
it is not required to have a certified knowledge but obviously he should have the knowledge of requirements.

shesh

the process owner....
it is not required to have a certified knowledge but obviously he should have the knowledge of requirements.

shesh

If there are requirements outside of the process that the process owner is not an expert on, the document approval process should include those experts who can approve/reject a document based on how adequate is addresses those mandatory requirements.

My thought process here is along the lines of environment, health & safety and even some quality requirements that may not necessarily be known by the process owner. If, for example, an environment regulation changes, the process owner may not know about it...but hopefully the ISO 14001 Management Rep does.

If there are requirements outside of the process that the process owner is not an expert on, the document approval process should include those experts who can approve/reject a document based on how adequate is addresses those mandatory requirements.

My thought process here is along the lines of environment, health & safety and even some quality requirements that may not necessarily be known by the process owner. If, for example, an environment regulation changes, the process owner may not know about it...but hopefully the ISO 14001 Management Rep does.

thats the reason, I said he should have the knowledge of requirements rather a certification.
and till today I hv not come across any procedures which had only the signature of the person who created it....
but it contains the signature who Prepared it,who Checked it & Approved by.
Approved by will normally be the MR....
which concludes to,that all the requirements are met........

What do you do in the situation where the "owners" of the processes don't know how to write their own procedures?

In the end, even if they just write it down in bullets, it means that I have to go back and put it in procedure form. Sometimes, the owners of the processes are not timely or write complete notes-so easier to just go thru the process myself and write the procedures. This is not the correct way, as no one seems to :bonk: take ownership of any processes.

What do you do in the situation where the "owners" of the processes don't know how to write their own procedures?

In the end, even if they just write it down in bullets, it means that I have to go back and put it in procedure form. Sometimes, the owners of the processes are not timely or write complete notes-so easier to just go thru the process myself and write the procedures. This is not the correct way, as no one seems to :bonk: take ownership of any processes.

I am in a similiar situation, Katheryn..our process "owners" specifically are the operators and they do not have computer access. However they are involved the ongoing development and maintenance (and hopefully improvement!) of the documentation that relates to them. We do have an audit trail (more or less) that shows the positions of people invovled in this aspect of document control via our audit and training matrices.

It is nice to know there are others out there in like situation. I am talking about Engineering, Document Control, Purchsing, etc. I just finished the internal auditing procedures and worksheets. I am hoping that once this is implemented-it will help in management reviews to bring some ownership into this process. It is not a one person job-it needs everyone to participate.

Thanks

Wow this sounds familiar. me too, engineering aviation wise. It just takes time sitting down with the guys going over what they are doing. Most people love showing you what they do - especially engineers! Somtimes I just watch the process going through and take flowchart notes, then go from there with the detail fill in. Always, it goes back to them to check, and if possible simplify. Us quality people tend to add too much waffle I find. The pride they feel when they have 'developed' the process or procedure themselves is very evident - and theres a much better chance of it working on the floor. I know it takes time and our bossess say thats not qualities job - but it enhances compliance and I know when I come back to audit it next year, it will still be working

We implemented on 7-11-05 and are coming up on our Pre-assessment Audit next week. If I had written the procedures and work instructions, I would be really messed up. What has happened since the audit has been scheduled, everyone suddenly cares. Now when they get all upset with their procedure, flow chart, or work instructions, I can say "You wrote them, they belong to you". NOW they are taking ownership which would not happen if I had written everything.
My responsibility was to try to ensure that all of them complied with TS not write them.
Kinda sad it took so long but now I am glad that I handled it that way. :lmao:

Every process' oner should write their own procedures.

Most of the time I use to get angered by this situation, the problem was solved with the fist pre-audit for certification, previous audit I exposed to all that I will be able to make their procedure but risk is high because I don't know every single and important step they do in their job, every one must take advantage of his procedure to ensure other processes will follow the rules, of course I guide them to accomplish the specific requirement of the norm. Words and steps must be consistent in an audit.

Is true, some people doesn't have time or access to computers, but I create a pattern and after talk with every oner we fill-out the pattern specifying:

Objective
Scope
Process description
responsibilities
approvals
related documents

Saludos.

:bigwave:

This sounds very logical- your approach to working with them-my issue is that the managers here usually last no more than 6 months. With every new person-there are changes. I often wonder how to pin down moving targets....:bonk:

Thanks for the response!
Respectfully
Kate