Currently our company is QS9000 certified and our goal is to be ISO/TS by the end of the year. In march our registrar wrote us up for as follows:

NONCONFORMANCE: Evidence that the type and extent of control exercised by supplier over subcontractors was established or that subcontractor development has been performed with the goal of compliance to QS 9000 was not always available contrary to requirements of QS 9000. Example: Purchase Orders and development actions were not available for Loc Pac.

Besides the fact we need to stipulate to the supplier our requirements, i really feel it is too late in the game to ask our supplier to become QS9000 compliant because of the TS requirement. Any suggestions:

Should they become QS compliant this late in the game or just go for ISO 9001. Is QS compliance acceptable?

Currently our company is QS9000 certified and our goal is to be ISO/TS by the end of the year. In march our registrar wrote us up for as follows:

NONCONFORMANCE: Evidence that the type and extent of control exercised by supplier over subcontractors was established or that subcontractor development has been performed with the goal of compliance to QS 9000 was not always available contrary to requirements of QS 9000. Example: Purchase Orders and development actions were not available for Loc Pac.

Besides the fact we need to stipulate to the supplier our requirements, i really feel it is too late in the game to ask our supplier to become QS9000 compliant because of the TS requirement. Any suggestions:

Should they become QS compliant this late in the game or just go for ISO 9001. Is QS compliance acceptable?

I don't think the finding is about what the subcontractor does or doesn't do, per se, but rather about your company's (alleged) failure to control the situation.

If you're pursuing 16949 registration, you have to comply with the requirements of 16949, in this instance with regard to subcontractors, which means that if third-party registration is required, the applicable standard is probably ISO 9001 ( it's definitely not QS-9000, although certain subcontractors might seek 16949 registration as well).

Thanks so much for your help. Is the supplier required to be compliant to ISO or registered?

One other question, If the supplier is required to be registered, do they have to have this done by the end of the year? Our customers are requiring us to be ISO / TS by the end of the year. Or can we give them some time on that as long as they give us a plan to be registered to ISO.

Your suppliers need to be pursuing certification to at least ISO 9001:2000 with a goal of TS16949:2002. If they have not achieved ISO certification, then they need to supply you with a written plan of progress and timing.
If you can provide evidence of their status, with an end date proposed, then your registrar should not write you a nonconformance.

I think I remember a 3 year clock for supplier ISO registration that begins when your company becomes registered. Does anyone else support that with actual knowledge? Was it in an IATF bulletin or something?:confused:

It amazing all this help. So here is another question. This supplier we have does only goverment work for us (Non automotive). Our company is 70 % government & 30% automotive. So I am thinking I can disregard the TS requirement and stick with ISO for this supplier.

If this is the case, I would like to only request that they be ISO complaint. Is this possible?


Thanks again for everyones help.

It seems to me that this supplier would only have to meet the governments requirements for suppliers. As they do not supply anything automotive, it seems to be a non issue. So, for this supplier, not even ISO is mandated, unless required somewhere else.

I was searching the threads trying to find an answer to my question and this one was going in that direction ... then stopped !
My question is:
Our company is a Tier 1 Supplier fo Ford and Volvo, and Tier 2 to Lear (also aftermarket GM). We are preparing for our TS readiness review and I am wondering about the Supplier QMS developement. If our suppliers are ISO (no intent on becoming TS certified) do we have to perform site audits? We have quite a few critical suppliers and we are located British Columbia (not known for automotive industry) making it costly for East Coast trips on an annual basis. If anyone knows of any specific requirements for annual site audits of suppliers I would appreciate it.
Thanks so much!

I would say if you have metrics showing acceptable performance from ISO suppliers, then you have no problem. But, when the supplier starts sending discrepant materials, it will become an issue and that supplier should show corrective action, and if still not responding, there needs to be an audit.

So there is nothing demanding supplier audits in TS or subsequent Customer Specifics if the supplier is ISO and NCRs, CA, and follow-ups are being performed?

Hey there ... me again. On the topic of Supplier Annual on-site assessments... We have identified our "high impact" suppliers and have ensured that they are ISO 9001 certified. We monitor these suppliers through monthly scorecard with data calculated from OTD, PPM, Quality Certification, and Buyer Survey. According to Ford Q1 II.1 Sub-supplier Quality Management. II.1.2 states: "Supplier verifies sub-supplier compliance by annual on-site assessment of high impact sub-supplier facilities." Our problem is that we are located in BC Canada and alot of these suppliers are in the Eastern states and Canada. We have 25 "high impact" suppliers and that could get quite costly on a year on year basis. Would annual on-site visits be needed if the supplier scorecards were acceptable, they kept their ISO cert, and there were no real CA problems? Could we state that on-site visits will be required if their scorecard trends become unacceptable?" We are also thinking of sending out an annual "Self Assessment" so along with the scorecard data we would plan supplier visits as necessary. Any help on if this would satisfy Ford Q1 customer specific requirments? Thanks again all;)

Hi
I have just joined, and I am hoping that you nice folk out there can help me.
I have just gained a promotion to be a sub contractor manager for a FM company.
I realy need to make a good impression and I was wondering if you had any ideas for me.
Also if you could help me, one of the ideas that I have had is to have a sub contracor audit form - To internal audit the sub contractors. Has any one got any ideas or templates on what sort of questions need to be asked.

Sorry I sound a bit dumb at the moment, but I have ideas floating about in my head, but just need advice and mentoring on how to put them in place.

Thanks in advance
:D

one of the ideas that I have had is to have a sub contracor audit form - To internal audit the sub contractors. Has any one got any ideas or templates on what sort of questions need to be asked.

Welcome Environ,

You have a pertinent question which any responsible person in that position will ask and you are on the right track.

For any thing on suppliers - audit, evaluation, survey etc, you may search our post attachments list (http://elsmar.com/Forums/fileslist.php?mode=allfiles&sortby=filename&pageamt=2&criteria=supplier) by keying in supplier as the 'keyword'. By the way, supplier includes sub contractors because they supply you a service.

Regarding TS clause 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system development.
What would be the evidance that a company has met this clause if their sub-supplier is ISO certified but had no plans of going for TS certification? How would the supplier development clause be met?
Can I get some examples of how other companys meet this requirment?

Sharon,

Please see the attached listings posted and with the customer requirements and TS, if you can get a letter from your customer allowing you as tier1, to
audit companies that meet the requirement of ISO, but not certified.

This is the acceptable practice.

Your customer knows some companies comply with ISO, but do not want
to be certified and add requirements to there QMS System to meet TS,
requirements.

Our suppliers are ISO certified, but do not have plans to be certified or comply with TS.
That is not really the issue... my problem is how do I show that we are "performing supplier quality management system development with the goal of supplier conformity to TS"?
If others can show me what records they have showed a CB Auditor that have satisfied this clause.

Sharon,

Look at the attachements for this thread that I have posted. (QMS)

alsohere are a couple of items you can use,