What PPAP level would you request for a production part provided by a distributor?

When I worked at anyTier 2 important company, we used to raise Purchase Orders to distributor when we run out of parts of the main manufacturer.

The P.O was raised but I think no PPAP was needed,

Is this not outside procedure?. :mg:

It seems that all the PPAPl procedure is focused on manufacturers but what´s up with distributors, they have also processes and legal responsability.

They stockage the product in their warehouses, they transport the product at what condition?, they sell us the product. :argue:

Couriously I have seen many problem due to these practices, when we were going to stop a tier 1 customer, we went to the market to buy the run out product, but sometimes this component was damaged due to the stock conditions. :mad:


I do not know if PPAP manual has an special level for these people?. :eek:

Whether not I think a procedure must be raise from AITF

i.e

Special PSW, process flow, AMFE, Special final SPC, Not MSA???

Your opinnion would be much apreciated
Regards.

It depends on the risk involved and the end customer's requirements. For catalog parts that represent minimal risk, Level 1 might be appropriate. In other instances, such as fasteners with critical structural requirements, you would probably want to see more data. Of course, the PPAP level addresses only the elements that must be submitted, and doesn't relieve the supplier of having all of the relevant PPAP documentation, unless the requirements have been explicitly waived.

It depends on the risk involved and the end customer's requirements. For catalog parts that represent minimal risk, Level 1 might be appropriate. In other instances, such as fasteners with critical structural requirements, you would probably want to see more data. Of course, the PPAP level addresses only the elements that must be submitted, and doesn't relieve the supplier of having all of the relevant PPAP documentation, unless the requirements have been explicitly waived.
We discussed some thing like this in the past.
As Jim says the question is not the level but rather the content.
The distributor has several activities which are basically storage, packaging, labelling and delivery.
You should be getting a PPAP based on the producers certification and the rest of the documents refering to the distributors activities.

PPAP (PSW) Level 3 - Warrant with product samples and complete supporting data submitted to customer should be appropriate.

This means that the distributor needs to send you certificates, samples and a complete measurment of the part in question and of cause a process flow chart. This should be enough. I would not recommend to go above level 3.

Because I know the problems with level 5 :(

PPAP (PSW) Level 3 - Warrant with product samples and complete supporting data submitted to customer should be appropriate.

This means that the distributor needs to send you certificates, samples and a complete measurment of the part in question and of cause a process flow chart. This should be enough. I would not recommend to go above level 3.

Because I know the problems with level 5 :(

In the US, "certificates" have no intrinisic legal value; by accepting a purchase order and shipping against it, the supplier is tacitly (and legally) "certifying" that the specifications have been met. In any case, the PPAP requirement is for material test reports, and whether they're submitted or not doesn't alter the fact that they are required.

PPAP submission levels are not serially augmentive; there is no "above" or "below" in terms of documentation submission requirements. For example, a Level 4 PPAP might require more or less documentation than a Level 3. And Level 5 is the carries the same requirements as Level 3, the only difference being that the documentation is reviewed at the supplier's location.

In the US, "certificates" have no intrinisic legal value; by accepting a purchase order and shipping against it, the supplier is tacitly (and legally) "certifying" that the specifications have been met. In any case, the PPAP requirement is for material test reports, and whether they're submitted or not doesn't alter the fact that they are required.

PPAP submission levels are not serially augmentive; there is no "above" or "below" in terms of documentation submission requirements. For example, a Level 4 PPAP might require more or less documentation than a Level 3. And Level 5 is the carries the same requirements as Level 3, the only difference being that the documentation is reviewed at the supplier's location.

In the world I live in there is no level 1-2 and 4. There is only 3 and 5.(Phased PPAP). And thus we require that same from our suppliers. Im damaged :mg:.
Yes, its true that level 5 is the same as level 3, but costumer should be on site for both capabillity verification and capacity verification on Level 5. This takes alot of time away from you. That is why I dont recommend it.

As long as you fullfill the PPAP checklist (19 point to fullfill?) there should not be any problems.

In the world I live in there is no level 1-2 and 4. There is only 3 and 5.(Phased PPAP). And thus we require that same from our suppliers. Im damaged :mg:.
Yes, its true that level 5 is the same as level 3, but costumer should be on site for both capabillity verification and capacity verification on Level 5. This takes alot of time away from you. That is why I dont recommend it.

As long as you fullfill the PPAP checklist (19 point to fullfill?) there should not be any problems.

There is no standard requirement wrt Level 5 for the customer to be present for capability or capacity verification; the latter is generally referred to as "run at rate" and happens after PPAP approval. Mind you, I'm referring to default AIAG PPAP requirements, which may be different with your customer(s).

There is no standard requirement wrt Level 5 for the customer to be present for capability or capacity verification; the latter is generally referred to as "run at rate" and happens after PPAP approval. Mind you, I'm referring to default AIAG PPAP requirements, which may be different with your customer(s).

That is true for AIAG PPAP. Ford terms (PHASED) a "Run at Rate" is done before Capacity verification,and it is called PHASE 0 (No PSW). Where supplier runs a limited batch to show costumer that they are close. Phase 1, Quality Verification, Phase 2 Production Verification and then the last one Capacity Verifcation which is phase 3.

The three latter are PPAP PSW submission level.
Phase 1,2 and 3 may be done at the same time. Phase 2 is not necessary if you one have one product stream/line.
(And then you also have in mind that the review is dependent on Site status).


Im sorry for this, but as I said, I am from the world of Phased PPAP :bonk:

And I am still suggesting Level 3! ;)