Hello
I have a question about changes in the process/changes of sub suppliers that I should present to my customer.

It's clear for me that I should inform my customer (via PPAP) about all changes at my supplier. But should I also apply the same procedure if there is a change at the sub supplier of my supplier ?

Just to information: No product or specification would be changed. I'm tier 2 supplier.

Is it anywhere clearly described ? VDA ? ISO/TS?

Regards
Strive

I think this issue is not covered in PPAP, therefore No necessary..
Only if your suppliers changes....

But your Supplier must raise a new PPAP for you reflecting that change.
Use level 1 to this kind of changes.

I think is important to always request to our Suppliers in PPAP an updated Supplier-List as other Documents required.

Hello
I have a question about changes in the process/changes of sub suppliers that I should present to my customer.

It's clear for me that I should inform my customer (via PPAP) about all changes at my supplier. But should I also apply the same procedure if there is a change at the sub supplier of my supplier ?

Just to information: No product or specification would be changed. I'm tier 2 supplier.

Is it anywhere clearly described ? VDA ? ISO/TS?

Regards
Strive

According to the 4th Edition of the AIAG PPAP manual (pages 13-14), you must notify your customer of

Any changes, including changes at suppliers to the organization and their suppliers, that affect customer requirements, e.g., fit, form, function, performance, duarability.

Your customer will then determine whether or not PPAP submission is required.

But your Supplier must raise a new PPAP for you reflecting that change.
Use level 1 to this kind of changes.


This is wrong, as is your previous response. See my response above/

Jim.

This would be a nightmare in some Electronics Fields... I think common sense need to be applied.

For that reason some Customer request the Suppliers List, and if you tell your customer that your supplier are the same.....

This is wrong, as is your previous response. See my response above/


I am becoming Obsolet with 4th Edition. Thanks...

This is wrong, as is your previous response. See my response above/


Jim. Imaging that your Customer Say no.

But for your supplier is a direct change of Supplier therefore it apply a new PPAP.

Jim.

This would be a nightmare in some Electronics Fields... I think common sense need to be applied.

For that reason some Customer request the Suppliers List, and if you tell your customer that your supplier are the same.....

Customer requirements trump all other requirements. The OP was asking for an official source, and I gave it to him. How the default requirements are handled is a matter of customer preference. If PPAP is a requirement, and a customer has not explicitly waived a specific default, then the default rules.

Customer requirements trump all other requirements. The OP was asking for an official source, and I gave it to him. How the default requirements are handled is a matter of customer preference. If PPAP is a requirement, and a customer has not explicitly waived a specific default, then the default rules.

Yes it is absolutely. This point is clear.

And the other point?.

Do your Supplier need to send you a new PPAP? I think yes.

Yes it is absolutely. This point is clear.

And the other point?.

Do your Supplier need to send you a new PPAP? I think yes.

Please read my initial response again. The same requirements apply to Tier III (and on down the chain) suppliers. They must notify, and then a determination is made as to whether or not PPAP to any level of the supply chain is necessary.

Tier III makes process changes that fit the criteria I cited earlier from the PPAP manual. Tier III must notify Tier II.
Tier II, in turn, must notify Tier I. Regardless of the response from Tier I, Tier II may request a PPAP submission from Tier III.
Tier I decides whether a submission from Tier II is necessary, and what it must include if it is deemed necessary. This could trigger a request from Tier II to Tier III for PPAP submission.

Please read my initial response again. The same requirements apply to Tier III (and on down the chain) suppliers. They must notify, and then a determination is made as to whether or not PPAP to any level of the supply chain is necessary.

Tier III makes process changes that fit the criteria I cited earlier from the PPAP manual. Tier III must notify Tier II.
Tier II, in turn, must notify Tier I. Regardless of the response from Tier I, Tier II may request a PPAP submission from Tier III.
Tier I decides whether a submission from Tier II is necessary, and what it must include if it is deemed necessary. This could trigger a request from Tier II to Tier III for PPAP submission.


Yes Sir. :applause:

Please read my initial response again. The same requirements apply to Tier III (and on down the chain) suppliers. They must notify, and then a determination is made as to whether or not PPAP to any level of the supply chain is necessary.

Tier III makes process changes that fit the criteria I cited earlier from the PPAP manual. Tier III must notify Tier II.
Tier II, in turn, must notify Tier I. Regardless of the response from Tier I, Tier II may request a PPAP submission from Tier III.
Tier I decides whether a submission from Tier II is necessary, and what it must include if it is deemed necessary. This could trigger a request from Tier II to Tier III for PPAP submission.


Sometimes I wonder if it isn't "Tear" I ;)

Thanks for the hints.
Well, then according to the "official sources" regardless how deep down the chain (Tier IV, Tier V supplier) we have a change the customer must be informed. Decision as to PPAP is made individually.

Personally I think it should be regulated more precisely. Sending tons of information to customer can only make the communication more difficult. Each supplier takes responsibility for his product, doesn't he ?

Thanks for the hints.

You're welcome :agree:

Personally I think it should be regulated more precisely. Sending tons of information to customer can only make the communication more difficult. Each supplier takes responsibility for his product, doesn't he ?

It's up to the customer. If you have a change that requires "tons of information" to be transmitted in order just to notify the customer, it must be a pretty serious change. Usually, something like "Our supplier changed the process for part a from x to y; what do you want us to do?" will suffice.

You're welcome :agree:



It's up to the customer. If you have a change that requires "tons of information" to be transmitted in order just to notify the customer, it must be a pretty serious change. Usually, something like "Our supplier changed the process for part a from x to y; what do you want us to do?" will suffice.

:applause: :applause:


Jim I was a PPAP guy for 1 year supporting Delphi and Visteon and I must recognize that your exposition is outstanding, I think the most important fact is to have a good communication with your Customer and then they will decide what to do with the info received or comment received.

This avoid misunderstanding and improve the relation between Supplier and Customer, Every Customer and at instance every person is difference, and at the end to put the Customer voice on focus.

:applause: :applause:


Jim I was a PPAP guy for 1 year supporting Delphi and Visteon and I must recognize that your exposition is outstanding, I think the most important fact is to have a good communication with your Customer and then they will decide what to do with the info received or comment received.

This avoid misunderstanding and improve the relation between Supplier and Customer, Every Customer and at instance every person is difference, and at the end to put the Customer voice on focus.

Thank you. Communication is a great thing, but will only work when both sides are willing to listen.:D