Hi, I have a question:

Is it true, that for every PPAP made is necessary to do the IMDS register, as PPAP 4 th edition?

Thanks for help

According to most of our Automotive work, yes. But then again, Ford 'updated' phased PPAP doen't ask for it on thier own PSW.
Better safe than sorry though because that's the direction the 16949 crowd seems to be heading.

We provide the IMDS number on all PPAP submissions. That doesn't say we re-enter the material in the IMDS data base every time we do a new PPAP. The material in the data base does not change and if it is supplied to various customers, the same IMDS number applies.

Dave

Ford 'updated' phased PPAP doen't ask for it on thier own PSW.

Ford is actually more stringent about IMDS submissions than many other OEMs. And they want that submission much earlier: 6 months before Job 1 date. (Found out about that the hard way!)


B.G. Wiehle

I'm with Dave - and the new Part Submission Warrant actually requires the number. We only resubmit if there is a print revision change as I believe that is one of the required fields when submitting to IMDS.

Thanks for all!

Ford is actually more stringent about IMDS submissions than many other OEMs. And they want that submission much earlier: 6 months before Job 1 date. (Found out about that the hard way!)


B.G. Wiehle


Really? a hard way!! :(

GM asks for it if you want to have anything better than saleable status ( Full approval).

Ford in its specific requirements for PPAP 4th edition, Page 3/4, indicates IMDS is only one of the options, up to Ford Material Engineering's preference.

Really? a hard way!! :(


Back in early June, with PPAP not until August and print changes still coming through, the Ford SQA communicates that the IMDS submissions for 3 assemblies (same program) were late and he wanted them submitted ASAP. Luckily I had most of the information for the current revison already together and got it done. I'll have to re-submit later because of all the changes.:bonk:

B.G. Wiehle

I have been the PPAP coordinator for over a year. I was improperly trained on what IMDS was and how to document it on the warrant. Several hundred PPAPs later I find out that I've been doing it wrong. We are self-certifying so are warrants are rarely scrutinized. My customer is Ford Motor. Is this a major problem?

I have been the PPAP coordinator for over a year. I was improperly trained on what IMDS was and how to document it on the warrant. Several hundred PPAPs later I find out that I've been doing it wrong. We are self-certifying so are warrants are rarely scrutinized. My customer is Ford Motor. Is this a major problem?

Yes. IMDS is important part of PPAP. Your IMDS submission allows the next party to complete their assembly submission. If you were submitting your PPAPs, they would be rejected (by knowledgeable parties) if that information is missing. You should also be demanding of the IMDS number from your suppliers on their PPAP.

Yes. IMDS is important part of PPAP. Your IMDS submission allows the next party to complete their assembly submission. If you were submitting your PPAPs, they would be rejected (by knowledgeable parties) if that information is missing. You should also be demanding of the IMDS number from your suppliers on their PPAP.

It's a problem from the standpoint of paperwork being in order, but if the specified materials were used the impact on the product is probably nil. Also, I think that in all of the PPAPs I've personally reviewed (thousands) the material test report was done according to the specified requirements in maybe 1% of the cases.

It's a problem from the standpoint of paperwork being in order, but if the specified materials were used the impact on the product is probably nil. Also, I think that in all of the PPAPs I've personally reviewed (thousands) the material test report was done according to the specified requirements in maybe 1% of the cases.

Lest I create the impression that having current IMDS information isn't important, it's always possible for a material specification to change before drawings are updated, and it's never a good idea to not be sure of what the current requirements are before signing the warrant.

It's a problem from the standpoint of paperwork being in order, but if the specified materials were used the impact on the product is probably nil. Also, I think that in all of the PPAPs I've personally reviewed (thousands) the material test report was done according to the specified requirements in maybe 1% of the cases.

The IMDS number reported on the warrant generally does not include the rev. The IMDS system would be the final source for the most recent rev. So, whether there was a change or not is irrelevant - it will simply up rev the same IMDS number.

In fact, just today from Chrysler:


Community: Chrysler
Message priority: Normal
Subject: IMDS confirmation numbers on PSWs
Message: As a reminder to Suppliers, all Part Submission Warrants (PSWs) submitted to Chrysler must include a completed IMDS confirmation number in the “Materials Reporting” section of the document. Failure to do so will result in your PSW being rejected.
Attachments:
Targeted audience: Chrysler Production Suppliers
Effective dates: 06/12/2009 to 07/13/2009
Contact name: Contact your SQE
Contact phone: Contact your SQE


Seems clear to me what the requirement is - whether or not it is followed (as I mentioned) has a lot to do with the diligence of the approver.

The material test report itself is really a whole different issue than IMDS reporting. But, yes, the IMDS reporting is a pitiful mess. But, it is still required....

The IMDS number reported on the warrant generally does not include the rev. The IMDS system would be the final source for the most recent rev. So, whether there was a change or not is irrelevant - it will simply up rev the same IMDS number.

In fact, just today from Chrysler:


Community: Chrysler
Message priority: Normal
Subject: IMDS confirmation numbers on PSWs
Message: As a reminder to Suppliers, all Part Submission Warrants (PSWs) submitted to Chrysler must include a completed IMDS confirmation number in the “Materials Reporting” section of the document. Failure to do so will result in your PSW being rejected.
Attachments:
Targeted audience: Chrysler Production Suppliers
Effective dates: 06/12/2009 to 07/13/2009
Contact name: Contact your SQE
Contact phone: Contact your SQE


Seems clear to me what the requirement is - whether or not it is followed (as I mentioned) has a lot to do with the diligence of the approver.

The material test report itself is really a whole different issue than IMDS reporting. But, yes, the IMDS reporting is a pitiful mess. But, it is still required....

The MTR is a different but related issue. I was just using it as an example of the sloppiness of OEMs in enforcing the requirements. As in the OP's case, "wrong" PPAPs might be submitted and approved for years before anyone notices.

The MTR is a different but related issue. I was just using it as an example of the sloppiness of OEMs in enforcing the requirements. As in the OP's case, "wrong" PPAPs might be submitted and approved for years before anyone notices.

As the issue in my case. OEM just now started noticing.

The MTR is a different but related issue. I was just using it as an example of the sloppiness of OEMs in enforcing the requirements. As in the OP's case, "wrong" PPAPs might be submitted and approved for years before anyone notices.

Sad, but true!

Stijloor.

The MTR is a different but related issue. I was just using it as an example of the sloppiness of OEMs in enforcing the requirements. As in the OP's case, "wrong" PPAPs might be submitted and approved for years before anyone notices.


Well, can't really argue that point. Others can be anal retentive about their PPAPs. There is no rest for the weary.