In the first please excuse my english.
Second I am verry happy because you exist. Thanks ,thanks...
My name is Radu and I work in Romania at a company at quality department.
My company wil have in future an audit for certification ISO TS 16949 and after I study a lot of process maps and cop's,mop's,sop's process thanks ELSEMAR COVE WEB SITE I made our company pocess interaction map.
Please kindly evalute my map and give me improve solutions.

PS Our company don't have product development.
thank you very much

In the first please excuse my english.
No problem at all - we usually manage.:agree:

Welcome to the cove!:bigwave:

I don't work in automotive but I think your map looks good.

I think you should show input from your client to management for Contract Review rather than product realization. Because if the business can't get past the Contract Review, and Feasibility review there will not be any product realzation. (I think I could read enough Romanian to understand the designated titles.) I hope this helps. Let me know if I misinterpreted it.

Radu !
Are you going to translate your map, or you will get fewer responses.
If you search the post attachment list, and scroll down to the bottom of this page, you will find a lot of process maps, and similar threads. Maybe you can find some good ideas from there as well.
Bine ai venit. (Welcome):bigwave:

I think you should show input from your client to management for Contract Review rather than product realization. Because if the business can't get past the Contract Review, and Feasibility review there will not be any product realzation. (I think I could read enough Romanian to understand the designated titles.) I hope this helps. Let me know if I misinterpreted it.

First of all thank you again for your advise.

I think that I made a mistake because I think that points 7.2.1-7.2.2.from ISO TS is cop proces Contract review and Feasibility review .
You tell me that I must to put another cop proces "Contract review and Feasibility review " before 721 722 and the customer send Request For Quotation to this process"Contract review and Feasibility review " .
I translate my map and I put the proces "Contract review and Feasibility review" on the map.
Tell me if I understand and if it is OK
Please about the others process what do you think there are OK?

Thank you very much for your time.:thanks:

Welcome Radu,

I have seen your map at glance and found it is O.K. I shall comment further, when I see in detail.
However, for any further help, you may contact at any point of time.

Regards,

Manoj Mathur

I think it looks pretty good. I added justa couple very minor modifications to close the communicatins loop:
<----------Client external communication/feedback,
and Client Input--->,
and process Output---->
Not a big deal but may help someone understand the process.

Attached with revisions

I think it looks pretty good. I added justa couple very minor modifications to close the communicatins loop:
<----------Client external communication/feedback,
and Client Input--->,
and process Output---->
Not a big deal but may help someone understand the process.

Attached with revisions

Thank you very much for your advise

I found in forum a old map wich was made by You.I like very much that map and I try to modify so I can use it in my company. Could you tell me if the modification it is OK ,I hope that I understud that map and there are not many mistakes .

Thank you very much for your time.

Radu

Thank you very much for your advise

I found in forum a old map wich was made by You.I like very much that map and I try to modify so I can use it in my company. Could you tell me if the modification it is OK ,I hope that I understud that map and there are not many mistakes .

Thank you very much for your time.

Radu


I looked at your modifications and they appear to be OK. If what you are showing reflects your actual process sequence and interaction, and you can explain it, then I think it is good to go.:agree1:

welcome Radu
It looked there still have some unclear process interaction. such as management related process. you only indicated linkage of management review & internal audit, customer satisfaction etc, but what is their sequence?

and how the business planning process linked process such as data analysis/ improvement etc?

hope help

welcome Radu
It looked there still have some unclear process interaction. such as management related process. you only indicated linkage of management review & internal audit, customer satisfaction etc, but what is their sequence?

and how the business planning process linked process such as data analysis/ improvement etc?

hope help

Perhaps this map helps you to understand the linked between those processes.
I think I will put this map in our quality manual because I think it is better than the first.

I hope it is OK.

Perhaps this map helps you to understand the linked between those processes.
I think I will put this map in our quality manual because I think it is better than the first.

I hope it is OK.


raduro, thanks for posting your revision update.

raduro, I have made some modifications to your process map and will attach it for you to see if you like the changes. Hope you don't mind adapting to our process to see how it fits.

:thanx: raduro, I have made some modifications to your process map and will attach it for you to see if you like the changes. Hope you don't mind adapting to our process to see how it fits.


Thank you very much for the modificatios I like very very much your changes and it is better for our process too.I am sure that this will be the final version of our map process and we will put it in our quality manual .

Thank you again

What do the abbreviations, MOP, SOP and COP stand for ? Would be good if you expand in the process map.

What do the abbreviations, MOP, SOP and COP stand for ? Would be good if you expand in the process map.

These are used to show the process approach to functions or your operations
and were basically developed for ISO9001:2000 and TS16949.
They also help to clarify process maps, flow charts, turtle diagrams, etc.

COP=Customer Oriented Process
MOP=Management Oriented process
SOP=Support Oriented Process

Perhaps this map helps you to understand the linked between those processes.
I think I will put this map in our quality manual because I think it is better than the first.

I hope it is OK.

Hi,
I still do not think the interaction/sequence is clear for those MOPs

Hi,
I still do not think the interaction/sequence is clear for those MOPs

Please post an example of what you think best shows how to clarify the interacton/sequence. Then we may better understand the objectives.

Hi Ralphsulser,

Can I know why are Production Planning (7.5.1.6), Measurement Systems (7.6), Purchasing (7.4), Control of Production and services (7.5) are marked as Customer Oriented Processes then, when they can be actually a part of the "Systems Oriented Processes" ?

I may be wrong, just my thought as these are some sections which are managed by the supplier systems and not customer oriented processes ?

Sorry, not "System Oriented Processes" but "Support Oriented Processes"

Please post an example of what you think best shows how to clarify the interacton/sequence. Then we may better understand the objectives.

sorry for unclear information. sequence/interaction should show the clear relation, that means where the input come from and where the output goes to.
example such as MOPs include business planning/ data anlaysis/managment review/improvement/internal audit
and we could show the sequence as Business planning-->data analysis--->improvement--->internal audit ----> managment review, then management review linked back to improvement.
hope clear.

Hi, my friend

I revewed your procesess map and I have some points for you.

I think the process 4.2 and 4.2.4 don't be a process, they are procedures.
You show 7.4 and 7.6 as COP but remember the definition of COP. activities who interact with the customer by the input or output, this kind of process don't be a COPS, this process are SOPS.
I didn't see the motivation process, I recomended to you that put it.
Remember that the COPS should have contac with the customer for example invoice, etc

regards

Rudolf

I don't know TS16949, but I get the impression that the term "COP" (which is used regularly by all you folk in automotive) is defined in that standard. Until this thread started, I had assumed (I know that can be risky!) that a "Customer Oriented Process" was similar to the collection of activities and requirements mentioned in the "Customer-related Process" Section (7.2) of ISO9001:2000, but I now get the impression that the term is used in the same way as "Product Realisation" in ISO2K.

Anyone else outwith automotive been confused?

Can someone post the definition? Does the definition help folk to understand their own operations better? Many thanks.

I don't know TS16949, but I get the impression that the term "COP" (which is used regularly by all you folk in automotive) is defined in that standard. Until this thread started, I had assumed (I know that can be risky!) that a "Customer Oriented Process" was similar to the collection of activities and requirements mentioned in the "Customer-related Process" Section (7.2) of ISO9001:2000, but I now get the impression that the term is used in the same way as "Product Realisation" in ISO2K.

Anyone else outwith automotive been confused?

Can someone post the definition? Does the definition help folk to understand their own operations better? Many thanks.

Hi Peter,

In AIAG TS implementation guide, 2.1 stated the below:

" 2.1 Customer Oriented Processes
In ISO/TS 16949:2002, the IATF has adopted a concept called “Customer Oriented Processes,” or COPs.
COPs are referred to in the Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002, where it is stated:
The IATF expects ISO/TS 16949:2002 auditors to audit based upon the
Customer Oriented Processes (COP). The COP is a model that was introduced
by ISO 9001:2000 and refers to the fact that any organization needs customer input to comply to specified and expected needs of the customer (output) in order to achieve customer satisfaction. This is accomplished by value adding processes of product realization and appropriate support processes, both enabled by management processes and provided resources."

However, the checklist to ISO/ TS 16949 was made obsolete after IATF decided that there shall not be any checklist for a third party auditor as this will create clause by clause audit as what is happening in QS 9000.

So basically what you have in mind is 7.2.

Hope this help.

:tg:

I don't know TS16949, but I get the impression that the term "COP" (which is used regularly by all you folk in automotive) is defined in that standard. Until this thread started, I had assumed (I know that can be risky!) that a "Customer Oriented Process" was similar to the collection of activities and requirements mentioned in the "Customer-related Process" Section (7.2) of ISO9001:2000, but I now get the impression that the term is used in the same way as "Product Realisation" in ISO2K.

Anyone else outwith automotive been confused?

Can someone post the definition? Does the definition help folk to understand their own operations better? Many thanks.

Hi, Peter

COP means customer oriented process, in another word, is process whose input come from customer and output go to customer directly.
usually customer related processes could be identified, such as customer requirements identification/review, product/process design, delivery, service, customer feedback handling, payment etc.
hope clear

Hi Peter,

In AIAG TS implementation guide, 2.1 stated the below:

" 2.1 Customer Oriented Processes
In ISO/TS 16949:2002, the IATF has adopted a concept called “Customer Oriented Processes,” or COPs.
COPs are referred to in the Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002, where it is stated:
The IATF expects ISO/TS 16949:2002 auditors to audit based upon the
Customer Oriented Processes (COP). The COP is a model that was introduced
by ISO 9001:2000 and refers to the fact that any organization needs customer input to comply to specified and expected needs of the customer (output) in order to achieve customer satisfaction. This is accomplished by value adding processes of product realization and appropriate support processes, both enabled by management processes and provided resources."

However, the checklist to ISO/ TS 16949 was made obsolete after IATF decided that there shall not be any checklist for a third party auditor as this will create clause by clause audit as what is happening in QS 9000.

So basically what you have in mind is 7.2.

Hope this help.

:tg:

RE:COPS,MOPS,SOPS
As I recall this all started with AIAG/IATF approved training by Plexus for ISO9001/TS16949 3rd party CB auditors, and was part of the lexicon introduced initially. There may some posts here somewere that references this scenerio.

So then the newly trained auditors "suggested" these methods along with other things like turtle diagrams. It then spread like wildfire because everybody wanted to use the latest techniques to help them get their QMS certified too.

RE:COPS,MOPS,SOPS
As I recall this all started with AIAG/IATF approved training by Plexus for ISO9001/TS16949 3rd party CB auditors, and was part of the lexicon introduced initially. There may some posts here somewere that references this scenerio.

So then the newly trained auditors "suggested" these methods along with other things like turtle diagrams. It then spread like wildfire because everybody wanted to use the latest techniques to help them get their QMS certified too.
Ralph / Cheahga / P_tww

Thanks, all.

It is interesting how things get interpreted, and how ideas develop, sometimes away from the original intention - for example, I don't believe that 7.2.3 (Customer commmunication) describes a process (or processes), but rather "things you need to do" in other processes. But the fact that 7.2 is called "Customer-related processes" seems to have led some folk to think that everything mentioned in the section must be a process.

And then we have COPs, and "Product Realisation", and "Customer Satisfaction" - perhaps everything that an organisation does in relation to quality should be thought of as "customer oriented", including the way it is managed and the way in which resources are provided - and the way in which it "gets and does work" can be focussed on as its "core processes".

What process maps are mandatory? One showing the interelationships of all of the COPs, MOPs and SOPs (just one)? Separate ones for each individual withing each category, (COP, SOP MOP?) (A bunch?) Just what will satisfies 4.1B? We had an external consultant / auditor say he usually finds 25-30 processes mapped. Now this has become and expectation....:mad:

hi,all
I'm Jacky from China,I've been worked in TS operation for 3 years in a JV of China and France,I think this title on process map help me a lot!
thank you all!

--------
Jacky