Is the definition of finding :

A FINDING IS DEFINED AS A CONCLUSION OF IMPORTANCE BASED ON OBSERVATIONS OR A FINDING IS DEFINED AS A CONCLUSION OF IMPORTANCE BASED ON EVIDENCE.

ANY INPUTS????

Eugene

Let's say I'm an auditor and I watch as an employee does something. There is an undocumented but trained system which was explained to me earlier. The employee I am observing is not following the trained system. I really don't have 'hard' evidence (no paper to copy or such) but I can issue a finding based upon my observation.

The above is observed - but - the term OBSERVATION in the ISO9000 world used to mean the same as is now called things like OPPORTUNITIES FOR IMPROVEMENT.

An OBSERVATION was not a 'finding' in the 'old' ISO world, but that has nothing to do with observing a noncompliance.

evidence can be an interview or 'seeing' a nonconformance happen....corraborated by your guide, or further interviews with another trained employee.... As long as there is verification (did I see what I thought I saw) And was what I was told corraborated by a minimum of 2 sources as true? Sources can be interviews, or paper or evidence from another auditor..etc.

I understand a FINDING to be a non-conformance base upon OBJECTIVE evidence.

How do you define objective evidence?

OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE is that which is defined as verifiable information based upon records, observations or statements of fact.

The evidence can be quantitative or qualitative and used by an auditor to determine whether or not the audit criteria has been met.

The evidence can be based upon interviews, document review, observation, and the existing results of measurments and testing.

The evidence must however be within the agreed to scope of the audit criteria.

I think we're all in agreement here. The only confusion was over the word observation which is an issue of the context in which it is used.

Hafta snicker over this. Obviously somebody wants to argue a "finding", eh?

Kinda like telling the judge that the cop only "saw" you run the stop sign. Guess who's gonna win?

Rather than bitch and moan and fight a finding, fix it with the same energy and watch the world spin more easily.

I agreed with Marc that we are in the same song book except that it is a bit confusing on the two words "observations" and evidence".
To conclude , a finding is an audit conclusion that idnetifies a condition having a significant adverse effect on the quality of the activity under review and findings are negative,violation of a requirement,promise made and was not kept.

I much prefer common sense to semantics...life is much easier that way.

We all get hung up on words.....and numbers (as in # of N/C)....the point is, if its broke fix it. If the people involved are representing the process incorrectly....educate them...if it adds no value say so...if the procedure can be clarified for everyones benefit...just do it for God sakes. Don't be so defensive.

Thank you, Barb. This kind of conversation has always confused me. I fix the "observations" as well as the "findings". If I don't, they darn sure will be "findings" later on...

Has anything changed with respect to the Definition of a 'Finding' in the last 3 years?