back about +/-6 months ago Quality digest did a comparison, but it was not complete nor very valid from what i saw....comments were not confirmed, etc..... I was not impressed and it certainly was not unbiased

[This message has been edited by barb butrym (edited 16 December 1999).]

I saw what Barb saw and it was not very helpful. In fact, the article made it seem like it couldn't be very definitive because the publisher was afraid of repercussions from the registrars(lawsuits, etc.). Given that, I don't know what you can expect for results except something at least somewhat watered-down.

Is anyone aware of a "Customer Satisfaction Rating" that would be used to classify registrars?
I have contacted ASQC and they couldn;t provide any info.
I thought someone might know of a magazine article or results of a poll that might be available.

This is not to say selection of a registrar is totally "buyer beware", although to some degree it is.

During the selection process, obtain references from those who seem to you to be viable candidates. Then, make contact. Lots of contact. What you learn from those clients should provide you some good and real input. It certainly helped me eliminate more than one potential registrar. It also helped clarify our impressions of those with which we felt comfortable. Those telephone calls were a distinct part of our selection process. Mind you, they were not the sole criteria.

Rather than ask a registrar for "references", I asked for a "Client List". It may be only a subtle difference, but it allowed me to choose companies that matched, as closely as possible, our business environment; I felt this was preferable to using "References". I did the same when I was assigned a Lead Auditor, and was fully prepared to reject the assignment if I was not satisfied.
As it worked out, I was satisfied with the assignment, our registration audit was completed early in December and our corrective actions approved in late December, so we are now recommended for Registration to ISO 9001 with QS 9000 - TE Supplement.

------------------
Tom Goetzinger

YA know..a good way to tell about registrars is to audit a facility soon after they did....I know an audit is a snap shot in time but it is usually pretty representative.....I always ask who a companies registrar is...and if possible I like to review the audit report. I know this isn't all that easy to do, depending on the company you are working for.......but talk it up with your customers and suppliers and colleagues...compare notes......especially a company dealing with a listed client. A carefully orchestrated interview with the registrars auditor can tell a good bit too. But that is based on experience, easier said than done.

But then...you are not at the audit, so its hard to look at stuff out of context and get a real read on it.

On second thought, maybe not such a great idea afterall.....LOL

Thanks everyone for your input.
It appears that maybe the answer is for suppliers to get together in a forum similar to this one and voice our concerns, both positive and negative.

The best way to evaluate a registrar is to talk to one of their customers. See if the registrar is fair and professional. If the customer is always disagreeing with the results of the audits or feels that the registrar is identifying "nonproblems". The registrar may not be "fair". One of the biggest problems I see is the registrar rolling over if the customer complains. There is a lot of competition.

If they are identifying the same types of problems the internal audit program is identifying, unless of course the internal audit program is broken, the audit is probably a fair, impartial look at the system. The main reasons for the outside look is 1) registration 2) your management won't belive the internal group.

[This message has been edited by Gerry A. Sherman (edited 15 February 2000).]

What do you think about setting un a poll: VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE/MOST RESPECTED/HONEST/CENSORIOUS/ETC. REGISTRAR?
I think that yould be interesting....

I'm not sure we could do a Poll here with this system to cover enough of the available registrars. Maybe Al could do one like his Benchmarking poll. Start a new topic, everyone 'votes' in a reply - and Al tabulates the results. :thedeal:

Marc,

Is that a question or a taunt (sp)?

Of coures I will. It may take a few days to get the format and questions together, but I think it would be a good tool for Cayman.

In the mean time I want, request, order, mandate etc... that people submit questions or topics they want covered.

Marc, You might want to add a special topic like you did for me with the benchmarking topic.

I'll do the rest of the work!

The one thing I request is participation, even if it is by personal e-mail!

Really looking forward to it being successful (sp) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bigwave:

Originally posted by Al Dyer

Is that a question or a taunt?I was volunteering your expertise. Besides, you're bored and need something to do.

I think a thread in this forum (Start a New Topic) will do. I dumped the Benchmarking Forum because it wasn't getting any use - so I moved those threads to the Misc Quality Topics forum. There are so many forums already that it's confusing. :thedeal:

Marc,

I should have put a smiley at the end of that first sentence:)

I'll try to work it in between Jerry Springer and Judge Judy:biglaugh:

Seriously,

I've started on the project but would still like some input from the forum on any special catagories they would like covered.

One thing that would really help me is the forums thoughts on which registrars to include. There are so many out there and some do one standard but not another.

As a bottom line I will include those registrars of some stature. (including PJ!)

As an aside, I also agree that something like this should be a topic and not a stand-alone forum. I thought the benchmarking forum would have a higher turn-out rate. I guess this goes along with your earlier comment that people are registering but not posting as "regulars".

Keep up the good work!


:bigwave:

I wouLd vote that you include the following registrars:
NSF-ISR, CRS, ORION, UL, DNV, LLYODS,SGS

I guess better late than never. Is there still an interest for rating registrars?

Topics:

Responsiveness
Location
Cost
Pass/Fail Rate
Auditor Meeting

If there is any interest please post some additional topics you would like to see as choices.

Al,

I say we do it.

CarolX

Originally posted by Al Dyer
I guess better late than never. Is there still an interest for rating registrars?

Topics:

Responsiveness
Location
Cost
Pass/Fail Rate
Auditor Meeting

If there is any interest please post some additional topics you would like to see as choices.

Yes lets do it. My Current Registrar (TUV MS)
Responsiveness -0
Location - N/A
Cost - Ridiculously high
Pass/Fail Rate- N/A
Auditor Knowledge - Excellent

Hey,

We may have something to work with here. Let's go people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Carol and ISO Guy!!

Even though I think Carol X is prettier (sp):bigwave:

I want to keep it to 6 registrars unless there are other suggestions. Just because I am lazy!

So Far from personal e-mails:

U.L.
Smithers
A.Q.S.R.
S.Q.R.
LLoyds
Perry Johnson (No Comment)
B.S.I.

Looking for more and please include some questions!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Al,

Please soldier on with the questionaire. Being Canadian I would like to see some of our biggies included (i.e. QMI, SGS, KPMG). As for questions. How consistent is their approach among auditors? How reluctant are they to admit they are wrong? How organized and flexible are they for scheduling purposes. Do they always send different auditors or is there are sense of continuity. How helpful are they with improvement ideas? How well do they skirt the tricky consulting issue? Pricing?

Last time I did a complete request for quotes, I received responses such that the low end price was almost exactly one-half the high end price after doing the math!

Even though I think Carol X is prettier (sp)

Al,

Thank you - I am blushing.

How about adding Global Registrars - We used them, and I was very pleased with them.

Neil brought up some interesting suggestions - or perhaps Neil has some documentation/questionaire he used that could be adapted for this?

CarolX

Originally posted by Al Dyer
I guess better late than never. Is there still an interest for rating registrars?

Topics:

Responsiveness
Location
Cost
Pass/Fail Rate
Auditor Meeting

If there is any interest please post some additional topics you would like to see as choices.

I'm in...

Registrar: QMI
Responsiveness: Somewhat (6 week response on proposed CA's on N/C's from last audit)
Location: ??? All over
Cost: Higher than a cat's back (although in line with most Registrars)
Pass/Fail Rate: N/A
Auditor Meeting: Closing meeting - hmmm... Hostle... :eek:
Auditor Knowledge: Of QS 9000 - Excellent. Too bad he was doing an ISO Recert. Audit.

Potential Questions:
Do you think your Registrar adds value to your company?
Do you audit your Registrar? ("Borrowed" from M. Greenaway on another thread :D )
Do you maintain the same Auditor each audit?
Do you feel your auditor knows your business?

Cheers!!!

Al,
I give my cats baths all the time. My only problem is getting rid of my hair balls when I am not outside.
:biglaugh:

I just wanted to mention that KPMG Quality Registrar was recently purchased by BSI. In this months Quality Digest there is an article by Rad Smith on TS16949. In the para "About the author" is states that Rad is now the Associate Director of Quality Systems with Management Resources International and no longer the Director of the Automotive Division of KPMG.

Since KPMG is our registrar, I wondering when they are going to tell their clients?????:confused:

Originally posted by Jim Webb
Al,
I give my cats baths all the time. My only problem is getting rid of my hair balls when I am not outside.
:biglaugh:

Jim,

That would definitely explain the battered look of your avitar... :biglaugh:

Anyone bathing a cat in less than full body armor is 5 cans short of a six-pack. :eek:

BTW, I know of a good brand of cat food that is supposed to reduce hairballs... should work for you too. :smokin: :ko:

Cheers!!!

That's why it takes 5 cans and a strong door, to keep the cat from coming back in for revenge!!!!!!

Again thanks all for the responses! I will put together a questionnaire based on the responses received. I will also post a new thread that will ask any open or secret employees of registrars if they want their company included.

Only fair.

NSF -ISR: 1=bad 5=excellent
response 3
cost 3
pass/fail 5
location 4
auditor meeting 4

AQSR is another Canadian registrar I would like included please! :bigwave:

On the inside looking out--or is that on the outside looking in??:vfunny:
All of our clients have indicated their willingness to be references for our services.
We do surveys after every certification and surveillance audit. Using a "bell-curve" customer satisfaction survey of 1-5 ratings with 3 being fully met my expectations, 1 totally missed my expectations, and 5 being overwhelmed my greatest expectations, our survey replies have averaged better than 4 on all questions. The questions are based on performance of the company, and for the audits and auditors, the criteria contained in ISO 10011.

Hi Ric :bigwave:

I saw you in Quality Digest;)

Thanks, Randy :o
We're kinda proud of what we've done.

What's the status, Al?