I work in a company that outsources all of its calibration to various outside sources. What do I need to do in order to be able to accomplish simple calibration tasks in house and save on the outrageous costs of calibration? I am not looking to take away all outsourcing. But calibration of hand tools should easily be accomplished internally unless that is a violation of my ISO 9001 certification. I think as long as my master standard blocks, weights, etc. have been calibrated by an outside source and it is traceable to NIST, I should be ok at doing this, any opinions?

Well Cathy, that's an interesting question. From my experience I would tell you that although the figure may seem outrageous it's often because you aren't working with your cal. supplier to reduce costs.

My guess is, especially since you outsource all of it, that you don't have anyone who is (truly) competent to run a calibration system and you are, therefore, at the mercy of the supplier. I'm even going to go out on a limb and say your frequency of equipment calibration is annually or something similar and your lab just loves you for it........(and I don't mean your dog, either.):lol:

It's a bit like taking your car in for oil changes every 3,000 miles - you are actually throwing away good oil! But since you're at the mercy of the oil change folks and the oil makers, you go along with it. Worse still, do you really want to do that yourself???

Calibration done internally could be an option, but you're going to need a lot more than just the few items you listed. You'll have to have some controls over the calibration environment, someone 'competent' to perform the work, maintain a database of records (actually, you should have that anyway), have some documentation of the way to calibrate (or get some industry standards), have a way to deal with adjusting frequency of recall, etc. To go all the way to manage equipment, you should understand concepts such as linearity, bias, stability and uncertainty, not simply traceability.

Without these kinds of core skills/knowledge, it's going to cost lot more.......

It's not a 'violation' of ISO to do it yourself - but your registrar will/should start asking questions.......

Hope this helps (anyone else got some insights........?)

Andy

I think that we first of all need to know a little bit more about how much measuring equipment is in the loop and what kinds of equipment.

Secondly, you need to think about the number of calibration services/companies you are using. Rule of thumb: It is better to be a big fish in a little pond. Most likely you could narrow it down to one or max. two calibration services and receive a better price, plus the added value of a closer relationship.

Thirdly, you should evaluate your equipment based on the earlier calibration certificates to establish proper intervals. This would be very easy to do in cooperation with your calibration service, as part of the agreement to take on all your calibration work.

do I need to do in order to be able to accomplish simple calibration tasks in house and save on the outrageous costs of calibration?

Gert's advice is spot on, imo. :agree1: I would also like to suggest a look in a previous thread: Monitoring and Measurement - Small shop making tooling for the foundry industry (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6692), where calibration costs came up.

/Claes

I recommend a single source for your calibration needs - an accredited cal lab.....still, calibration done PROPERLY is not cheap!

That also goes for internal cal. If it is done properly, it is not cheap. The only difference is that the cost is largely hidden, and the uncertainties are rarely ever calculated.

An accredited lab has metrology professionals. Of course, like any outsourced service some are better than others.

I recommend checking the websites of IAS, NVLAP, and A2LA to find an internationally recognized accredited cal lab that can handle all or nearly all your needs.

Also, get a copy of the the February and May 2005 issues of Quality Digest. One of them has an article "In or Out" that addresses the decision whether to outsource of keep inside your calibration efforts.

http://www.iasonline.org

http://www.a2la.org

Not sure about NVLAP, search for them.

Hope this helps.

Hershal

I work in a company that outsources all of its calibration to various outside sources. What do I need to do in order to be able to accomplish simple calibration tasks in house and save on the outrageous costs of calibration? I am not looking to take away all outsourcing. But calibration of hand tools should easily be accomplished internally unless that is a violation of my ISO 9001 certification. I think as long as my master standard blocks, weights, etc. have been calibrated by an outside source and it is traceable to NIST, I should be ok at doing this, any opinions?

Hi Cathy and Welcome to the Cove,

You got some great advice here....but I am about to play the devils advocate.

Your calibration system needs to be tailored to your product. Are you building rocket parts or shelving for retail store displays?

My reason for asking....are you measuring and holding tolerances that are truly critical, or are you measuring parts that have +-1/32" tolerance, and .001 out of tolerance will not effect the use of the part.

I do in house calibration of micrometer and calipers. I have a set of "master" blocks that are re-check anually by an outside lab and traceable to NIST. I have a tolerance set on my gages of +-.001. Tools are calibrated in the enviroment they are used. This system works well and is cost effective - but - we make parts for cabinets, shelving and brackets.

Hope this helps a bit and doesn't confuse the situation.

But calibration of hand tools should easily be accomplished internally

I personally would not use the word "easily" while describing internal calibration. It can be done and quite frequently is, but there is quite a bit of work that needs to be done to do it right.

Everyone gave good advice so far. CarolX makes a very valid point. Do some research and after you have all the facts I think you'll still be using an outside calibration service. An auditor could make you life miserable if he finds anything wrong with your system.

Good luck.

For the basic tools ( scales, verniers, micrometers ect) you can look at it from a pure cost stand point. What is the cost of a set of masters and the time it would take to perform the calibration vrs the current cost charged by an out side source. If you only have a few pieces of equiment the cost and maintance of the masters would offset any savings.

This calibration work of basic equipment is well with in the skill of a good inspector and can save a good deal of money (plus provide real time sanity checks as needed)

As the precision and complexity of the equipment goes up I belive you will see that the use of external sources becomes more economical that supporting the calibration inhouse.

As far as audit concerns mentions above I have seen as many findings from the use of outside sources as mistakes from internal opps performing calibration. As with anything good trainign and instructions and you will pass any audit.

You are right about the cost of outsourced calibrations - many people do not know that the profit margin for most calibrations performed by a commercial calibration lab vary between 50% and 75%!

ISO 10012:2003, "Measurement management systems - Requirements for measurement processes and measuring equipment" is a good guide for setting up internal cal lab. NCSLI's Recommended Practices (www.NCSLI.org) are a good resource too. Having worked in the calibration industry for 22 years I can also advise you to get some training, a calibration consultant, or hire an experienced calibration technician. It is not a skill set that can be self-taught and the resources needed are not going to be "cheap".

Thanks so much for all of the comments, some I agree with and some I don't but isn't that great about living in America, the ability to have that freedom instead of always following the path of least resistance. While I agree at this point, that in the past the company did little to work with the Calibration houses locally to reduce costs, realistically there are so few of them here, the options are limited with reducing costs.

For 90% of the calibration that is done on over 350 pieces of measurement equipment, I already have just two sources. My question was really based on the fact that out of the 350 pcs. of equipment, at least 250 pcs. are the handheld calipers, micrometers, drop indicators, etc. that I felt the cost savings could be made by performing the calibration internally. For vision systems, optical comparators, surface plates, temperature and vacuum gages to mention a few, my intent was to continue using an outside source.

We work in a clean room environment which is temperature and humidity controlled so that aspect of the calibration process would not be an issue. Having a database that holds the records, documents the next calibration due date, and actually has the capability as well of printing out a calibration certificate, I believe would cover me on that part of the puzzle.

Having master gage blocks traceable to NIST that would not be used for any other purpose except for performing calibrations should cover the traceable to an approved national standard.

I think the part I am lacking would be the actual how-to, at what frequency, to what increment I believe would be the last part. I previously worked at a facility where 98% of their calibration was done in house and I was instrumental to getting them ISO certified so I know it must be acceptable.

Where does one go for the how - to's ??? I think having a competent employee here capable to perform this as part of their job function is in place, I just need to be able to furnish them with workable procedures.

Thanks again for everyone's input!:thanx:

NIST in Gaithersburg, Maryland may still offer courses in dimensional metrology. I took courses there and they are the best.
Also, do you do any business with the government? If so you can join GIDEP. That's "Government and Industry Data Exchange Program". Their Metrology section offers thousands of detailed and downloadable calibration procedures used by the Military and other agencies. Click on www.GIDEP.org

How much of this equipment is used to qualify product as acceptable?

What are the tolerances of the product features to be checked? i.e. what are you making...

These questions come up as a logical next step in assessing internal calibration opportunities.

If you are supplying product to the state government, federal government, or military, you might be eligible to participate in the GIDEP program. GIDEP acts as a clearinghouse for all sorts of information for products and services translated between private industry and government activities. Their database of calibration procedures for all measurement tools is well known.

Participation is simple, you must account for the time and money saved through use of the program and share with them anything you might be able to, such as an operating manual for a broken oscilloscope you may have thrown out.

www.gidep.org (http://www.gidep.org)

If you are not eligible for GIDEP participation, there are "calibration procedures" available for purchase by many vendors and names. I do not recommend them. I have developed procedures for calipers, micrometers, drop indicators and test indicators. When you really know your tools, it's not too difficult.

That's the information I can give you. You don't need my opinion on deficiencies in calibration systems.

1. While I agree at this point, that in the past the company did little to work with the Calibration houses locally to reduce costs, realistically there are so few of them here, the options are limited with reducing costs.
For 90% of the calibration that is done on over 350 pieces of measurement equipment, I already have just two sources. Same thing could be said here in Denmark, but I actually cut costs at my previous company by more than 30% by using just one company. I simply got a new quote based on them doing all of our calibration.

2. My question was really based on the fact that out of the 350 pcs. of equipment, at least 250 pcs. are the handheld calipers, micrometers, drop indicators, etc. that I felt the cost savings could be made by performing the calibration internally. It is easy enough to perform calibration on verniers, micrometers and such. Take a course, and your all set. Been there, done that, and I knew nothing about it when I got the job :)

3. For vision systems, optical comparators, surface plates, temperature and vacuum gages to mention a few, my intent was to continue using an outside source. Smart thinking.

4. Having master gage blocks traceable to NIST that would not be used for any other purpose except for performing calibrations should cover the traceable to an approved national standard. Firstly, remember to take a good look at those blocks. Usually you only use about 25% of the set, but you get the entire set calibrated. Secondly, check your certificates for the set and evaluate of the interval is proper. No need to get it calibrated every year or so, if you handle it with proper care.

5. I think the part I am lacking would be the actual how-to, at what frequency, to what increment I believe would be the last part. I previously worked at a facility where 98% of their calibration was done in house and I was instrumental to getting them ISO certified so I know it must be acceptable. How to? Take a two day course :) Frequency? Look at your calibration results and the use of the item. If calibration results are fine (no deviation over time) and the operators of the instruments are trained and treat it properly you can usually increase intervals. Depending on the use and the operator a micrometer, for instance, can have intervals up to 3 years IMO.

6. Where does one go for the how - to's ??? I think having a competent employee here capable to perform this as part of their job function is in place, I just need to be able to furnish them with workable procedures. Why do you need to furnish WP's?? If you have a competent employee let him/her make their own procedures. Then you are sure that they fit the task.

I am with Cathy and the others that indicate you pay too much for calibration.

As a consultant I will offer my services for only half of what you are currently paying.:notme:

Seriously any organization that is making linear measurements frequently and has self calibrating equipment should pay only for a linkage to NIST in procuring calibration services.

Pay for your blocks and pins to be "calibrated" (actually certified as within standards for precision) and set up a "check before use" program that requires mikes, calipers, drop gages, etc to be compared to the "calibrated" blocks/pins on some frequency. Who does the check is your call. The frequency of checks is your call.

YOU set the frequency of calibration.... NOT the calibration service... That is like asking your life insurance salesman if you need more life insurance:agree1:

I hope that helps.

As covered by Chuck the interval is set by the user based on the actual equipment usage. It is a risk based system. Use something a lot the risk goes up and so to mitigate the risk the interval is shortened.
Most manafactures of equipment have recomended calibration intervals so I would start there. Tak a look at how you use the equipment to see if you might need to shorten the interval to reflect your needs. Use the history you have on file to see what changes are seen for the "as found" values to set your interval.
For procedures logic and commen sense go a long way. Remember that you want to check a min of 3 points cover values at the min mid and max ranges of use.
Here is a link to general starting info for creating a procedure
http://longislandindicator.com/calibration.html
There are plenty of procedures that can be purchased and consultants that can be used to suport procedure creation. Just search on the net.
If you have been relying on your calibration source to cover recall and review of equipment for calibration then you need to make sure you get a good calibration tracking and recall system in place. If you are not familiare with this then this is where a consultant would be of some real help to head off problems and keep you from serious mistakes.

Cathy,

Follow this link

Military Standards Directory (http://elsmar.com/pdf_files/Military%20Standards/)

and down load a copy of MIL-STD-120. This is a great document to keep on hand. It is an old military standard on gage inspection, including detailed calibration instructions.

Cathy,
First, I must state I work for a calibration lab. We focus mainly on scales and are accredited with a scope of up to 200,000Lbs. We are not “cheap”, however we are not “outrageous” either. That being said:
You get what you pay for.
Andygr’s last post was dead on.
You truly need to establish your own requirements regarding frequency, tolerance, user range, and the implied “risks” of those requirements.
Part of my job here is to help guide and educate our customers regarding the care and maintenance of their equipment including calibration.
We have customers who need calibration every 15 days and we always find between 3 and 4 scales broken every trip.:bonk:
We also have customers who perform internal calibration checks, we go in twice a year to issue documentation and find maybe 2 out of 75 scales out of tolerance.:agree1:
On many occasions we recommend less frequent calibrations depending on the past and present calibration reports of customer equipment, the environment they are used in, etc.
Highly sensitive equipment requires more care, not necessarily more calibration.
Any reputable calibration lab should be willing to work with you.
Fortunately or unfortunately depending on what side of the fence you are on, the trend in the industry is toward accredited calibration even if only once a year. This establishes the competency and objectivity your customers are looking for.
If you are exceedingly through and, competent technicians to maintain your own equipment and can establish the objectivity required, you should be ok however I do recommend accredited documentation at least once a year.:notme:

Mitutoyo offers gage calibration courses. Perfect for the beginner and the documentation given you is worth the price of admission. It includes many calibration procedures for calipers, micrometers, etc.

You can check their web site to see if any are offered near you.

Cathy
One of the pressures I used to be under when I was inspector/calibration chap was from above to prioritise production work over calibration. This was resolved by a contractor taking part of the work load, keeping total control in house. If your management can see the savings, this isn't a problem. You keep all the equipment in house, no delays, and after assessing the certificates, the periods can be extended, further reducing costs. I have sent you a PM, let us know your thoughts.
Paul

You are right about the cost of outsourced calibrations - many people do not know that the profit margin for most calibrations performed by a commercial calibration lab vary between 50% and 75%!
Hmm... well, many calibrations can be no profits as well. Maybe our lab is just not a savvy in business as others, but if we have an order with 1 or 2 gages on it, it's a loss considering the contract review, cleaning, and every part of the process. Or, certain types of gages/equipment that may take longer than expected. We try to be fair to ourselves, but usually favor the customer in terms of charging for the time spent.
Having worked in the calibration industry for 22 years I can also advise you to get some training, a calibration consultant, or hire an experienced calibration technician. It is not a skill set that can be self-taught and the resources needed are not going to be "cheap".
Agreed. Some companies think any dummy can do this. (sometimes our own). But it takes someone with a variety of skills: mathmatical, mechanical, analytical, problem-solving, and especially the ability to deal daily with politics and red tape.

cathy
try Gagetrak calibration software this will be the answer to all your needs you have
Gary

cathy
try Gagetrak calibration software this will be the answer to all your needs you have
Gary

Gary,

Could you eloborate on your statement?

The reason I ask is, in my application, this would be overkill. I work for a commercial sheet metal job shop. We run lean and mean. We don't do tight tolerance work, I have complete and usable work instructions, and simple handwritten records that are easy to manage.

Without knowing more about Cathy's situations - it may be overkill for her.

But I would love to hear about your experiences with this software. Could be beneficial to other users.

I may as well throw my $.02 worth in here also.

My QA department does the calibration of most of the hand measurement tools in our plant using standards that we have calibrated by an outside source. Presently we are maintaining approximately 3000 gages that include mics, depth mics, digital/analog bore gages, gage pins, ring gages, plug gages and a lot more. As I stated, we use standards that are calibrated by an outside source, but we also utilize a super mic to calibrate thread wires, plug gages, etc. and that is calibrated by that same outside source. We have established the frequency of calibration that we feel necessary to maintain quality, but that can be altered as history gives us the long-time results. Our standard is that every gage in the company is calibrated at least once per year, but many are done more frequently.

I have one tech who spends approximately 50% of the work day working on calibration and the remainder doing roving audits and new item inspections. We maintain our calibration records with Harrington Group's Calibration Recall software (quite satisfied with it) and have recently added a remote site to our software.

We are ISO 9001:2000 certified and our calibration system has passed our auditor's examination with good comments at every visit made to our location. If we had to pay someone to maintain this number of gages by sending to an outside source, it could cause a tremendous production bottleneck trying to anticipate which gages could be sent and at what time. Our procedures were written based on the military standard since the original tech that was involved had been performing those duties as a "lifer" in the air force.

sure
gagetrak may be overkill for her but if she is planning on a new start up she only has to use what she needs from it , they offer all her procedures in a simple step or she could write her own if she wishes , based on the history of her gage it will do automatic interval adjusting , i am just saying if your going to start there is not going to be overkill just some of what she may not need at this time but it will always be there , i am currently doing around 4000 to 4500 gages in house and i still do not use all of this software. there is not much it will not do but you dont have to use it all.
Gary

Gary,
Thanks for the info!

gagetrak may be overkill for her but if she is planning on a new start up she only has to use what she needs from it , they offer all her procedures in a simple step or she could write her own if she wishes , based on the history of her gage it will do automatic interval adjusting , i am just saying if your going to start there is not going to be overkill just some of what she may not need at this time but it will always be there , i am currently doing around 4000 to 4500 gages in house and i still do not use all of this software. there is not much it will not do but you dont have to use it all.


Many times, folks will post comments similar to your first post without the details you gave here.

And by the way, Welcome to the Cove!

As I mentioned earlier, calibration done properly - internal or external - is not cheap.....

To give an example, assuming a standard range of hand tools, then the first part is the required standards.....they must be calibrated so that the traceability chain is well defined and the measurement uncertainty clearly stated.....use an accredited lab for that and make sure you get the accredited certificate.....that goes for gage blocks, angle blocks, and all other items needed to calibrate your hand tools.....they can only be used to calibrate the tools.....

The technician (assigned person) must be trained not just in the specific measurement, but to assure that the person actually understands what and why, then also training in Metrology concepts, traceability, measurement uncertainty.....

Next your internal records must clearly state the traceability chain, that is, the certificate number of the calibration of the applicable standard(s), and also record the measurement uncertainty for each calibration.....IF YOU DON'T, then you do NOT have traceability, therefore it is a check only and not a calibration.....

You will need proper additional items, such as gloves to handle gage blocks, etc., as fingers should NEVER touch gage blocks.

The best solution is in fact an accredited external lab.....

Hershal

Hershal you are correct. Many are not aware of this definition.
Per ISO 17025:2005 "Measurement Traceability" section, traceability (to NIST or another Metrological Institute) is valid ONLY if the cumulative measurement uncertainty from NIST (or other Metrological Institute) through the unbroken chain of calibrations via calibration standards finally to the unit under calibration is calculated and stated on the certificate. This is valuable info for the user of the gage...

cathy
try Gagetrak calibration software this will be the answer to all your needs you have
Gary

I beg to differ. Gagetrak will not answer many of your needs. For instance, Gagetrak doesn't come with calibration procedures. The procedures you can purchase from alternate sources are probably inadequate.

Calibration procedures are central to calibration systems. The procedure you use to calibrate a tool becomes the operational definition of calibration. When you have established a valid and effective calibration procedure for something such as a blade micrometer, the procedure becomes the basis of acceptance, interval setting, disposition decisions, etc.

It isn't that hard, really. If you have a good knowledge of your tools and of measurement, you can apply a modicum of understanding about statistics and metrology to the creation of GOOD procedures.

A good procedure is an operational definition. It includes checks or questions about everything someone would look at when inspecting and testing an instrument.

Some people think that checking a micrometer at zero, 50%, and max is OK. How do you feel about that? Do you think this would bring a 0-1" micrometer into accuracy of +/-.0001"? What if the micrometer is off by .0003"--would you want to know exactly how to adjust it? What if the user applies more pressure to the micrometer than the person calibrating it?

Hello!

There are a number of commercially available calibration procedures/documentation available. If you perform government-related work, you can access GIDEP, where they have various standard procedures.

If I may, please do consider that performing calibrations in-house is a very appealing, tempting step. I owned my own calibration business, and several companies would go through cycles of going in-house, calling external vendors, going back in-house, external vendors, etc.

1. My experience is that auditors always place a little more scrutiny on internal calibrations than external calibrations, primarily due to the level of independence.

2. How well can you retrain/recruit appropriate talent, should you have turnover in your particular area?

3. When you add your internal costs of performing sending standards out, maintaining redundant standards, documentation, review, etc., be realistic on how much money you really are saving.

4. Do you require as-found/ as-left data (more expensive) than just a certificate of calibration?

5. Could you extend the calibration frequency, possibly saving some money?

5. Will your industry/regulations require extensive documentation of training/retraining, competencies, etc.?

Absolutely there are pro and cons to performing calibrations in-house, and I am sure that you have already addressed all these. In-house calibrations on the surface just seem like a "no-brainer", when there are a bunch of little things that need to be thought out.