I have had a couple of quality issues recently. I need to know how do you fine bunch of people overcome directives for CA that you know will be both/either ineffective or unobserved.
A practical example: Our customer began running product today that we shipped in January. As they dumped the bottles into the hopper a tape gun from one of our lines fell in also. Okay, so they were understandably upset and asked for corrective and preventive measures to be put in place. The response of management was chain the tape guns to the tables and write a procedure immediately, and get it to our sales man before he leaves the customer today. My objection to this was that a chained tape gun poses a safety issue. I was over ruled. So here I set trying to figure out a procedure for Tape Gun Management thinking this is not a procedural issue it is a 5S issue and needs a new system implemented that accounts for things and assigns them a home.
What are your thoughts? Oh and by the way if anyone has a Tape Gun Management Procedure or the like I would simply love to see it today.

:mad: :confused: Mark

Well, gosh, if management truly intends to chain the little devils down, do you really need a management procedure? I really do not mean to be sarcastic with this answer, but it kinda sounded that way, didn't it? I'm with you, this sounds like it could be a safety issue, but I really cannot justify writing up documentation for something that is chained in place.

Personally, I cannot see that whatever final disposition is chosen that a new procedure would be required.

Marc,

It seems like you have an employee whose name is "I don't know". I am sure that it is his fault that the tape gun got shipped. When anything comes into calibration here and is broken or misused the standard response is "I don't know". I have been searching for this employee and have others looking for this individual. Isn't it amazing that common sense gets lost and knee jerk reactions take over in the decision making process. Good luck in finding the solution.:rolleyes:

I'm with steelmaiden. I don't think it warrants a procedure.
I also agree that if you have a 5s program then you shouldn't need to chain the tape gun to the table either.

just a side story... I worked in plastic bottle place. One day we got a complaint that a customer found one of out packer's ID badge in box.
They were nice enough to send it back. Then the packer tried to deny he lost his badge. :lol:
Bottom line we had to create a policy that nothing could be kept in shirt pockets.

...The response of management was chain the tape guns to the tables and write a procedure immediately, and get it to our sales man before he leaves the customer today. ..What are your thoughts? Oh and by the way if anyone has a Tape Gun Management Procedure or the like I would simply love to see it today.

:mad: :confused: Mark

Of Tape Gun procedures but I would (as my sarcastic self :notme: ) run that "chain it" solution out to it's ridiculous logical limits. Why not chain the pen? The stapler? The screwdriver? The micrometer? To paraphrase Bob D. "Tangled Up In ...Chains" or should that be Aretha???:tg:

Has this ever happened before, with any item? Sometimes it truly is an "isolated case" and implementation of a formal CA is simply not economically and/or practically feasible. This isn't an excuse for a poor CA system, and it should be the rare exception, but there are cases where I believe the best action is no action.

If ya go the procedure route, I'd love to see that procedure...

Solutions I have seen which I consider "workable" include a tooling check sheet each shift to assure all tools are in place and in working order before the next shift begins.

The problem in my opinion was not knowing the tool was missing for the period it was in the shipment waiting for customer's use.

One missing tool would trigger a "root cause" and might even narrow the options to "in a shipment" OR "in the trash" OR "stolen."

I think Wes is on the right track here, but I'll take it a step further. What happened was that whomever it was that decided to chain the tool down was trying to provide a preventive cure without understanding the implications. He saw the problem as, "How can I make sure that tape guns don't get into customer shipments" rather than looking at why the tape gun was where it was when something bad happened.
What probably happened: The shipping person was working on packing the shipment and got distracted, which is always happening on busy (often understaffed) shipping docks. He put the tape gun down and went to attend to something else, and perhaps someone else came along and finished what he had started, not knowing that the tape gun was there.

Having some experience in shipping/receiving, I know that due to distractions and multi-tasking, a lot of steps are wasted due to not having the needed tools--tape guns, markers, box cutters, stencils, etc.--at the moment they're needed. You're on one end of a dock or warehouse and realize that you left your tape gun at the other end, and while retrieving it a truck driver comes in the door and needs your attention, and you momentarily forget where you were going before being interrupted and get halfway back to where you were working and realize you still don't have your tape gun...:bonk:

So what's the solution? There isn't a comprehensive fix, but a very simple expedient is a tool belt designed to hold shipping tools. Where do you get one of those? Right here (http://www.uline.com/Browse_Listing_254.asp?desc=Warehouse+Work+Belt). Using one of those, dock and warehouse workers can keep their tools with them, saving steps and bringing a touch of Lean to the operation, and they have a place to put the tape gun other than in the customer's cartons.

Use of the belts should be accompanied with some training, emphasizing the reasons they've been implemented.

So the customer's concerns have been met, and a few problems you probably didn't know you had have also been addressed.

Jim,
I like your solution because not only does it address the issue comprehensively, it also does it in a positive way. It improves the job for the worker.

James

Jim,
I like your solution because not only does it address the issue comprehensively, it also does it in a positive way. It improves the job for the worker.

James

Thanks. I always try to remember Deming's definition of what managers are supposed to do: Help people to do a better job. The "solution" of chaining down the tape guns not only didn't do that, it was degrading.

Is a CEO really going to pay overtime to have somebody check that all tape guns are present?

Is a chained tape gun useful in all situations ?

I have had a couple of quality issues recently. I need to know how do you fine bunch of people overcome directives for CA that you know will be both/either ineffective or unobserved.
A practical example: Our customer began running product today that we shipped in January. As they dumped the bottles into the hopper a tape gun from one of our lines fell in also. Okay, so they were understandably upset and asked for corrective and preventive measures to be put in place. The response of management was chain the tape guns to the tables and write a procedure immediately, and get it to our sales man before he leaves the customer today. My objection to this was that a chained tape gun poses a safety issue. I was over ruled. So here I set trying to figure out a procedure for Tape Gun Management thinking this is not a procedural issue it is a 5S issue and needs a new system implemented that accounts for things and assigns them a home.
What are your thoughts? Oh and by the way if anyone has a Tape Gun Management Procedure or the like I would simply love to see it today.

:mad: :confused: Mark

I guess none of us have reaaly come up with a good answer to your origional question. When it comes to overcoming bad decisions you have two courses of action.

One is you can chain the darn thing down and write some sort of a procedure, which you may have to do since you're under the gun.
The Problem with this is you will surely have to come back and revisit the situation anyway.

The other would be to provide a better response to management with a short term fix to satisfy the customer, and a longer term investigative action to provide a long serm solution.

Good Luck

James

Hi qualitytrec,

I totally endorse with Jim. Like others echoed, I am also not in favour of a procedure specially for this.

Can you think of any Poka Yoke (Error proofing) measures to avoid the recurrence ?

Hi qualitytrec,
Can you think of any Poka Yoke (Error proofing) measures to avoid the recurrence ?

I think the problem stems from someone looking to error-proof an issue that can't be error-proofed. Sometimes the best you can do is minimize the opportunity for error.

Something to remember when trying to solve a problem: you haven't really solved it if your solution creates a different problem of equal or greater magnitude than the one "solved."

The first step has to be defining the problem. In this case, the genius who chained the tape guns down had defined the problem as "tape gun in customer shipment." That wasn't the problem; it was the result of the problem. A classic example of recent vintage is automobile airbags. The problem to be solved was defined (roughly) as "Keep front seat occupants from being thrust into the steering wheel, dashboard and windshield in significant frontal collisions." The first generation airbags did that admirably well; the problem was that they also killed some people. It doesn't make any difference if the operation is a success if the patient dies.

To answer the basic question, perhaps some training in CA where your upper management folks attend as well as the "quality" folks will help. But, with dealing with managers, no guarantees! :tg:

So what's the solution? There isn't a comprehensive fix, but a very simple expedient is a tool belt designed to hold shipping tools.
Use of the belts should be accompanied with some training, emphasizing the reasons they've been implemented.

So the customer's concerns have been met, and a few problems you probably didn't know you had have also been addressed.

Darn good Idea.

I have had a couple of quality issues recently. I need to know how do you fine bunch of people overcome directives for CA that you know will be both/either ineffective or unobserved.
Mark
Mark,
I have had similar issues where Senior Management have placed ridiculous constraints on the operators to please a BIG customer. We try to avoid this by giving the managers a full understanding of the working of the area and to keep their knees on a level surface rather than jerking them so hard they hit themselves in the mouth.
We take a plan, similar to our safety reporting system, where we look at the issue and the root cause. This involves a standard investigation to find the root cause. We then look at ways to reduce or eliminate the occurrence of the incident through engineering, process change, training or administration (paperwork). We evaluate the suggestions and come up with a plan that will be efficient and effective. There have been times in the past were the solution is more painful than the incident but we have slowly overcome these and put in place better solutions. We have taken an attitude of what the customer can't see won't hurt them. We put something in place that will benefit US and hopefully help the customer. We never take the first fix as it usually is the wrong one and most painful. Our best defence is a good supervisor doing a final QA check. We have issued them with official looking stickers that they apply once they have signed off a checklist. The checklist is then kept with the shipping records in the event that something goes wrong later on. We have implemented weekly 5s audits of all final product dispatch areas and all tools etc are colour coded and small shadow boards built to show what tools are out. We have adopted the same approach as when I worked on Aircraft - the tools must be located before the plane can take off and the same applies here..the supervisor must locate the tools before he signs off for dispatch. Good luck.

If you can sell a good story to decisionmaker(s), that procedure might not be enforced after all. By chaining the gun down, you just endanger your employees involvement in a way, they will perceive the measure as degrading. Managers are not too deaf as long as they see your point, otherwise you will be overruled once and again.:truce:

Ummm.... another procedure, but if I were the customer I'd want to know how effective this procedure was. I'd want to know that there was a communication to all employees involved, and if there was a repeat incident (or similar foreign object in the box), then I'd say that the proposed procedure was a waste of time - which I think it wis.

How about this.
When a case contains , say 100 bottles for delivery to the customer - how do you ensure that there are 100 bottles in the case?

If you were to implement a weighing system to ensure that the correct amount of product was present in the sales unit / box , then any deviation from this weight would indicate

too few a quantity - low weight

correct weight - I'll make the assumption that all the bottles are present without the tape gun and less bottles :-)

over weight - either too many bottles or the right number of bottles with (maybe a tape gun) or some foreign object.

So I'd go with a weight system to improve the service to the customer , whilst also addressing the issue of the foreign object in the case.