Hi, I have a few problems with my Suppliers, maybe somebody has any gold ideas how convice supplier for send 8d reports and react to complaints in correct time.

Hi, I have a few problems with my Suppliers, maybe somebody has any gold ideas how convice supplier for send 8d reports and react to complaints in correct time.

What are you exactly looking for?
Try to tell him the use of 8D reports.
tell him a money saving scenario...its uses......

Hi, I have a few problems with my Suppliers, maybe somebody has any gold ideas how convice supplier for send 8d reports and react to complaints in correct time.

One of the best tools for improvement of supplier response is a face to face meeting. Find out why they are having trouble responding. Maybe they don't understand the requirements. Look at it as an opportunity to educate and improve your supplier base.

One of the best tools for improvement of supplier response is a face to face meeting. Find out why they are having trouble responding. Maybe they don't understand the requirements. Look at it as an opportunity to educate and improve your supplier base.

I could not agree more with you :applause: Too often the dialogue between the customer and supplier is overlooked as the key to problemsolving.

One of the best tools for improvement of supplier response is a face to face meeting. Find out why they are having trouble responding. Maybe they don't understand the requirements. Look at it as an opportunity to educate and improve your supplier base.

I could not agree more with you Too often the dialogue between the customer and supplier is overlooked as the key to problemsolving.

I agree with both of these posts. In approx. 90% of CA that is requested, the supplier either doesn't take it serious enough or they just don't want to answer. That is where the face-to-face comes in to play.

The other approx. 10% is because as the Customer, we issue CAs for everything and those become ineffective, in my opinion.

I strongly feel, the supplier normally won't understand its importance, and they fell its a waste of time. We need to show them the path to savings..hopefully they may agree...

I strongly feel, the supplier normally won't understand its importance, and they fell its a waste of time. We need to show them the path to savings..hopefully they may agree...

I think this might fall under the approx 10% of CAs. If the CA program is to work with the suppliers, it needs to a value to the organization and the supplier. Issuance of CAs to suppliers should be reviewed on the value to both the Supplier and the Customer. I have seen too many CAs issued for things that could have been handled via telephone and/or emails, in my opinion.

I think this might fall under the approx 10% of CAs. If the CA program is to work with the suppliers, it needs to a value to the organization and the supplier. Issuance of CAs to suppliers should be reviewed on the value to both the Supplier and the Customer. I have seen too many CAs issued for things that could have been handled via telephone and/or emails, in my opinion.

What is CA? is it Corrective Action?

Hi Przemek,

I tell you one secret to get any stuff from suppliers - get your Materials / Purchasing guys to talk to them; you will get it immediately.

The suppliers are very scared of Materials / Purchasing guys as they fear that they may not get repeat orders. I always direct my emails thru Materials :D

What is CA? is it Corrective Action?

I am sorry, I should have specified the terminology. Yes CA is Corrective Action.

I think this might fall under the approx 10% of CAs. If the CA program is to work with the suppliers, it needs to a value to the organization and the supplier. Issuance of CAs to suppliers should be reviewed on the value to both the Supplier and the Customer. I have seen too many CAs issued for things that could have been handled via telephone and/or emails, in my opinion.

I feel we should not handle any NC's(non-conformances) orally, irrespective of whether they are minor or major, we should document it, so via phone will not hold good,rather if its in a pre defined RCA(Root Cause Analysis)format we can ensure that no point is missed and we can have a track of all the NC's and their history can also be maintained and its implementation can be chased...., please correct me if I am wrong..

Hi Przemek,

I tell you one secret to get any stuff from suppliers - get your Materials / Purchasing guys to talk to them; you will get it immediately.

The suppliers are very scared of Materials / Purchasing guys as they fear that they may not get repeat orders. I always direct my emails thru Materials :D

I am the buyer at my company and I do find this to be true.:agree1: Maybe not "scared":D - but they do respond better to me as the Purchasing Agent than as the QA Manager. (I'm both here but hardly any of our suppliers realize that.)

I am the buyer at my company and I do find this to be true.:agree1: Maybe not "scared":D - but they do respond better to me as the Purchasing Agent than as the QA Manager. (I'm both here but hardly any of our suppliers realize that.)

Yes Cari, thats the fact of life. We tend to be fearing of the person who gives something to us. We are scared (respect :cool: ) of our boss as he has a say on our annual increments, promotions etc. :rolleyes:

I feel we should not handle any NC's(non-conformances) orally, irrespective of whether they are minor or major, we should document it, so via phone will not hold good,rather if its in a pre defined RCA(Root Cause Analysis)format we can ensure that no point is missed and we can have a track of all the NC's and their history can also be maintained and its implementation can be chased...., please correct me if I am wrong..


That is ok if that is how you want to handle the specific issues. Emails and documenting the phone calls could resolve any issues; and I believe it would meet the intent of the standard. But, I ask this question:

If a supplier happens to make a couple of mistakes, either dimensional or paperwork, should a CA (Corrective Action) be issued each time, when sometimes the phone call can resolve it (of course you would document the phone call). The objective of a effective CA (Corrective Action) system is if the result are verifiable and are value to interested party's. If numerous CAs are issued, how can this be value added to interested party's?

In my opinion, the issuance of CAs to supplier are more effective when they just aren't a piece of paper written on every issue that may happen.

I think you also have to look at it case by case Przemek. is the problem easy to solve?, if so, you may get a quicker response than if it was a very difficult one. I think a lot of customers get wrapped up in using a standard 5,7,10 days to solve problems where it may take a lot longer than that for the supplier to resolve. there seems to be a lot of 'passing' 8D's on to suppliers & expecting results within this time frame, plus there are differing themes to the document - one of our customers has a 5 page document to complete & another is happy with a single page, so long as it establishes root cause effectively - i agree with the face to face & also using a lot of verbal open ended questions to help 'extract' the info you search for. It's difficult to get consistent results, especially if you are measured on it by your management. good luck

I think this might fall under the approx 10% of CAs. If the CA program is to work with the suppliers, it needs to a value to the organization and the supplier. Issuance of CAs to suppliers should be reviewed on the value to both the Supplier and the Customer. I have seen too many CAs issued for things that could have been handled via telephone and/or emails, in my opinion.

That is ok if that is how you want to handle the specific issues. Emails and documenting the phone calls could resolve any issues; and I believe it would meet the intent of the standard. But, I ask this question:

If a supplier happens to make a couple of mistakes, either dimensional or paperwork, should a CA (Corrective Action) be issued each time, when sometimes the phone call can resolve it (of course you would document the phone call). The objective of a effective CA (Corrective Action) system is if the result are verifiable and are value to interested party's. If numerous CAs are issued, how can this be value added to interested party's?

In my opinion, the issuance of CAs to supplier are more effective when they just aren't a piece of paper written on every issue that may happen.

I totally agree with you.:applause:
But, I dont understand this issuing of CA? Normally, what I have come across is the supllier who ever makes the NC will raise a CA & PA(Corrective & Preventive Action) and submits it to the customer and the customer will review this and if he is happy he will accept. or else the customer will ask for a robust CA&PA which ensures that the NC's won't repeat. This is a case to case scenario and we practise this. But only for technical or dimensional problem not for a paperwork case.

I totally agree with you.:applause:
But, I dont understand this issuing of CA? Normally, what I have come across is the supllier who ever makes the NC will raise a CA & PA(Corrective & Preventive Action) and submits it to the customer and the customer will review this and if he is happy he will accept. or else the customer will ask for a robust CA&PA which ensures that the NC's won't repeat. This is a case to case scenario and we practise this. But only for technical or dimensional problem not for a paperwork case.

I believe there are two issues here.

1. The supplier identifies a NC because of something they may have uncovered.

2. The Customer finds a NC and generates Corrective Action (CA)

Answer 1: Yes I would support the notification from the supplier of an identified NC and develop a good relationship of communication between the Supplier and the Customer.

Answer 2: Only if necessary, and value added to interested party's

I think you also have to look at it case by case Przemek. is the problem easy to solve?, if so, you may get a quicker response than if it was a very difficult one. I think a lot of customers get wrapped up in using a standard 5,7,10 days to solve problems where it may take a lot longer than that for the supplier to resolve.

So very true. We have had the situation where a customer orders a part twice per year. They reject a shipment, disposition to "use as is", then send us a CAR to report the issues. Most of the time, with out a sample of the rejection, we can not make proper determination as to cause, let alone establish a CA plan.

Przemek

The best way I have found takes about 5 minutes per week, per supplier. The method is very simple and effective. It is to apply pressure to the non-responsive supplier frequently (1 time per week, or more frequently at your discression) and relentlessly with e-mail memos to notify them that their 8D response is past due and progressively with each notification that is required, CC more individuals higher in both organizations. If the severity of the problem is critical, then daily telephone and conference calls are better as long as they are documented.

The most important step in this process is to progressively, with each notification, CC all the disciplines in your organization: buyer, engineer, quality inspector, production planner, materials manager. (and anyone else that the problem may impact). You should also progressively CC the suppliers QA management, sales representative, faclity manager etc.....

I usually start by only emailing quality representative at the supplier location that is responsible for providing the response to notify them that their response is past due and CC my engineer.

If no response, will forward the memo again and start to progressively CC more disciplines at my organization.

If there is still no response I will continue to forward the email string and CC the suppliers organization.

This method is almost always effective.

Think about it from the suppliers viewpoint: You owe a corrective action response to a customer and you just havent had time to compile the report cause your just too busy. It insn't really your top customer anyway. You get a reminder to send the report but its still not on the top of the priority list. Then you start getting more memos with CC sent to a lot of people within your customers organization. Then, the need to respond starts climing the priorty list. Next week after you didnt respond, your boss and sales rep start getting cc'd on the string of memos youve been getting with several repeated requests for your past due response. At this point things usually start to climb the priority list quickly.

If you still dont receive a response after several of these memos, then you have an excellent record of your non-responsive supplier to support the auditor that is reviewing corrective action processes, and also the documentation needed to support your position to get a new supplier. Additionally when your suppliers start to come back to your organization for cost increases, your buyer can use their poor quality to leverage them in their justification for increases.

Send me a PM if you want some examples of actual correspondence I have had using this method.

Best regards.

We encountered the same situation in the company that I worked with. Most of the suppliers dont want to participate because for them its a waste of time, well thats how they said it.Anyway what we did is we encourage them, of course with the help of our purchasing team to convinced them about the advantages of the G 8D and the idea of globalization. We of course conducted a meeting at their plant side together with their General manager and sincerely convince them that with all our effort, we are willing to help them.It turn out good.:agree1:

As a supplier to a large automotive company managing many active 8Ds, I can offer the following advice to facilitate better 8D communication between customer and supplier:

1. Set up frequent conference calls to report status of each step of the 8D as progress is made. For example, in the first meeting, establish/ report the Emergency Response Action along with implementation dates. In the second meeting, establish, Interim Containment Action along with the implementation dates. In the 3rd session, begin a fish bone analysis and explore possible Root Causes. Do not simply demand for the supplier to submit an 8D report with all of the steps filled in by a certain deadline. All this will accomplish is prompt the supplier to grasp for any root cause which may sound plausible, in order to meet the deadline, without taking the time to validate the TRUE root cause.

2. Assist the supplier by designating a customer representative to sit on the 8D team and actively participate in the 8D process. Many times the root cause can only be found by exploring attributes from the system or application which requires input from the customer.

Communication with the customer on 8Ds is an area that we are trying to continuously improve.

I would be curious to hear how other companies handle 8D communication (either from the supplier side or customer side).

As a supplier to a large automotive company managing many active 8Ds, I can offer the following advice to facilitate better 8D communication between customer and supplier:

1. Set up frequent conference calls to report status of each step of the 8D as progress is made. For example, in the first meeting, establish/ report the Emergency Response Action along with implementation dates. In the second meeting, establish, Interim Containment Action along with the implementation dates. In the 3rd session, begin a fish bone analysis and explore possible Root Causes. Do not simply demand for the supplier to submit an 8D report with all of the steps filled in by a certain deadline. All this will accomplish is prompt the supplier to grasp for any root cause which may sound plausible, in order to meet the deadline, without taking the time to validate the TRUE root cause.

2. Assist the supplier by designating a customer representative to sit on the 8D team and actively participate in the 8D process. Many times the root cause can only be found by exploring attributes from the system or application which requires input from the customer.

Communication with the customer on 8Ds is an area that we are trying to continuously improve.

I would be curious to hear how other companies handle 8D communication (either from the supplier side or customer side).

Welcome to the Cove. :bigwave: That's a great first post.

I think that the amount of interaction between customer and suppliers in problem solving is either lacking, as you suggest, or dominated by customers who want to run the supplier's business, often without a clue as to how to go about it. Nonetheless, an efficacious problem-solving process does require access to all of the relevant information, and in many cases customer involvement is necessary in order for that to happen.

As a supplier to a large automotive company managing many active 8Ds, I can offer the following advice to facilitate better 8D communication between customer and supplier:

1. Set up frequent conference calls to report status of each step of the 8D as progress is made. For example, in the first meeting, establish/ report the Emergency Response Action along with implementation dates. In the second meeting, establish, Interim Containment Action along with the implementation dates. In the 3rd session, begin a fish bone analysis and explore possible Root Causes. Do not simply demand for the supplier to submit an 8D report with all of the steps filled in by a certain deadline. All this will accomplish is prompt the supplier to grasp for any root cause which may sound plausible, in order to meet the deadline, without taking the time to validate the TRUE root cause.

2. Assist the supplier by designating a customer representative to sit on the 8D team and actively participate in the 8D process. Many times the root cause can only be found by exploring attributes from the system or application which requires input from the customer.

Communication with the customer on 8Ds is an area that we are trying to continuously improve.
Welcome to the Cove!:bigwave:
I agree - good first post. Tell us, though, WHO is involved in the conference call ? (versus just you and supplier QM) Is it a logistical nightmare to get all parties on the line at the same time?

Do you offer real training in addition to supplying a customer rep? What training does your customer rep have? I have seen some big three reps be part of the problem instead of the solution.

As a supplier to a large automotive company managing many active 8Ds, I can offer the following advice to facilitate better 8D communication between customer and supplier:

1. Set up frequent conference calls to report status of each step of the 8D as progress is made. For example, in the first meeting, establish/ report the Emergency Response Action along with implementation dates. In the second meeting, establish, Interim Containment Action along with the implementation dates. In the 3rd session, begin a fish bone analysis and explore possible Root Causes. Do not simply demand for the supplier to submit an 8D report with all of the steps filled in by a certain deadline. All this will accomplish is prompt the supplier to grasp for any root cause which may sound plausible, in order to meet the deadline, without taking the time to validate the TRUE root cause.

2. Assist the supplier by designating a customer representative to sit on the 8D team and actively participate in the 8D process. Many times the root cause can only be found by exploring attributes from the system or application which requires input from the customer.

Communication with the customer on 8Ds is an area that we are trying to continuously improve.

I would be curious to hear how other companies handle 8D communication (either from the supplier side or customer side).

Excellent! couldn't have said it better myself. Everything hinges on communications. You can visit them, ask them to visit you, or just communicate via phone, e-mail, snail mail. Make sure you define why this was a problem for you, what you asked for, what you got, and exactly how the difference between the two affects your operations and why you need them to address it. Too many times, we just expect everyone to "get it" when it comes to corrective action requests, and unfortunately they oft times do not.

What I do when I really, really want a supplier to fill out an 8D form... I have the Buyer (Purchasing) put it in the contractural agreement.:nopity: