Should we allow access to forum post attachments without requiring registration? I've been thinking about this. I know the number of registrations would drop, probably significantly, because many people register only to get attachments. I'd like your feedback. Please let me know why or why not in your opinion.

Thanks! I appreciate your thoughts.

NOTE: I 'voted' "Not a big deal either way." so that I can see the poll results without clicking a link.

My "why not" is - there can be viruses in attachments. Granted, the software here probably handles it, but at least having a person register is some level of acceptance prior to posting (yes, one can register as a fake person).

After seeing SPAM and whatnot sneak in to the public boards at ASQ (and you can't even do attachments there) and having to go through and delete them as a moderator, I'm for registration.

Well, I was thinking of opening up Downloading of attachments, not Uploading attachments. I wouldn't even think of opening up UpLoading of attachments to unregistered visitors.

Doh! A Homer Simpson moment. But, I think it good to dangle a carrot to get people to register.:mybad:

As a businessman I had many opportunities to be involved/trade in many different products. Superficially, it appears that I know a lot but actually nothing much and that doesn't help me.

The cove had given me opportunities to learn a lot through other people. What I learnt the last year with regards to 'quality matters' is much more than what I learnt the last 20 years (in terms of variety/scope). Besides that, I make new friends, learn to observe and respect others culture, behavior etc and polish my communication skills.

This forum is about "Helping People" and based on my experience as a registered user we can do a much better job if we get people registered for they can benefit more. Registration is only a few key strokes and something given away free does not have much "perceived value" and will not benefit anybody. Therefore, I am all for registration!

Absolutely require registration. I've seen too many forums dissolve because of trolls and people looking for trouble.

Since this is Marc's baby, and he posed the question...

I like it just the way you have it set up. I think it is a great idea to require a registration of some sorts before granting access. A thin gate is better than no gate.

I would think that moderators have enough work as it is. I would hesitate to ask them to take on more work if there was no registration of any kind. Too, it allows you to track your website numbers more accurately.

Also, since Marc has allowed advertisement to defray costs of the forum, having a registration screen with some banners is another opportunity. If they want to download just to view, they can view the advertisers for support of the forum. :D

All I know is most of the vibrant, long-running forums (including online 42) I have seen have a moderate to stringent registration process. I would think that is for a good reason.

Just my :2cents: .

As a businessman I had many opportunities to be involved/trade in many different products. Superficially, it appears that I know a lot but actually nothing much and that doesn't help me.

:topic:

Harry, I want to weigh in here. I hope you are not suggesting that you do not have a broad knowledge base, because you do. I have enjoyed reading your posts, and you have been a very good follow-up/ monitor on many of the posts I have seen. When you post, you always have good stuff to offer. Everyone learns all the time from each other; getting to pick up morsals from all that post. My definition of highly intelligent people are those that have an open mind, willing to learn every chance they have.

Also, as I notice that you do not live in America, I have always notice your posts are very well written. That takes additional time and effort.

Not to get off topic, but did want to weigh in and give you well-deserved kudos.

My vote was no for pragmatic, not philosophical reasons. Part of operating any website is data mining of users to gain clues of what content is offering value, what other sites may be sending visitors to decide if there is value to work out reciprocal deals etc.

Advertising revenues often give more value to a site which has some demographics for its visitors. (Heck, print publications get more dollars per subscriber than per news stand sales unit.)

Since we do NOT charge for downloading, it seems only a fair quid pro quo for a visitor/taker to repay us by giving us the credibility [and creditability] of adding to our list of registered subscribers.

I agree with Wes. The cove should only be available to Registered Users for download or upload.

OK - Well, I have thought about this a lot and thought it might be good to 'calibrate' myself as to what others think. This post isn't to stop replies in this thread - I just figured I'd briefly explain my reason for stating it.

I think that, along with Wes' "credibility [and creditability]" (what wonderful prose) reasons, there is a softer reason to require registration as well. In my opinion it adds to the sense of community that has been alluded to here in this thread. The Cove is a very good source of information, but it is much more than that. The idea that one has to "join" to benefit is, to me, important. We may be an easy club to get into, but there is a little more to it than just walking into the door.

FWIW.

I guess I must have misread the question when I voted, because I agree that registration should be required, yet that is not how I voted. Sorry! Can I undo that vote to reflect a "no"? :o

While I have some doubts if I can express my opinion, as a visitor one year member, howevwer.
I do not know how much are you (and sometimes me) here for teaching, but one lesson is that nothing is for free in the real life.
So I wote for registration, and met some forums where you can not download without having posted let say 10-20 posts. That forum is not a professional one, just for talking but something for something.
Please do not missunderstand.

My vote was no for pragmatic, not philosophical reasons. Part of operating any website is data mining of users to gain clues of what content is offering value, what other sites may be sending visitors to decide if there is value to work out reciprocal deals etc.

Advertising revenues often give more value to a site which has some demographics for its visitors. (Heck, print publications get more dollars per subscriber than per news stand sales unit.)

Since we do NOT charge for downloading, it seems only a fair quid pro quo for a visitor/taker to repay us by giving us the credibility [and creditability] of adding to our list of registered subscribers.

Unless I'm mistaken, registrations are not a factor in determining revenue eligibility; I think it's based on (basically) hit and page-view counts. If I'm wrong, and revenue is affected by the number of registrations, I'll go with Wes.

Well, I was thinking of opening up Downloading of attachments, not Uploading attachments. I wouldn't even think of opening up UpLoading of attachments to unregistered visitors.

Marc, I agree with you here, when I first found this site I wish I had access without registering but was unable to.. :frust: . Perhaps some people needed to just glean from the resources without exposing the persona.
btw I voted :yes: ... obviously

Unless I'm mistaken, registrations are not a factor in determining revenue eligibility; I think it's based on (basically) hit and page-view counts. If I'm wrong, and revenue is affected by the number of registrations, I'll go with Wes.My experience is with paid banners versus Google-fed ads. The brokers who dealt with our site were greatly enamored of our 40,000 dues-paying members who fit a demographic the advertisers wanted.

If I were buying ads for a Registrar, I would rather pay for a Registrar banner to be viewed by 1,000 hard core quality professionals than a Google fee for 100,000 views of my text ad for random folks who searched "quality review" looking for good reviews on video games.

I guess I must have misread the question when I voted, because I agree that registration should be required, yet that is not how I voted. Sorry! Can I undo that vote to reflect a "no"? :o
I don't know how to change a person's vote. I can easily change the totals counts, but not the link to the person. Well, technically I could, but I'd have to access the raw database and figure out how that part of the database schema works {in short I would have figure out what to edit and then I'd have to edit raw database table(s)}. Marc, I agree with you here, when I first found this site I wish I had access without registering but was unable to.. :frust: . Perhaps some people needed to just glean from the resources without exposing the persona.
btw I voted :yes: ... obviously
I visit a lot of sites and that's sorta why I asked this here. I go to a site, find exactly what I need but have to register. To me it's not a bad thing, just a bit more time. I have a 'formula' I use for passwords and user names, and I keep a list in an Excel spreadsheet, so it's a bit more work, but not much.
Unless I'm mistaken, registrations are not a factor in determining revenue eligibility; I think it's based on (basically) hit and page-view counts. If I'm wrong, and revenue is affected by the number of registrations, I'll go with Wes.
I make most of the money here from Google ads by far, which is based upon a combination of page views and click throughs.
My experience is with paid banners versus Google-fed ads. The brokers who dealt with our site were greatly enamored of our 40,000 dues-paying members who fit a demographic the advertisers wanted.

If I were buying ads for a Registrar, I would rather pay for a Registrar banner to be viewed by 1,000 hard core quality professionals than a Google fee for 100,000 views of my text ad for random folks who searched "quality review" looking for good reviews on video games. From the advertisers end, that makes sense. But - I have 4 direct paid advertisements here now and together they bring in about 20% of what I make through Google. I should note that I 'sell' direct ads for a set fee for a set period of time. I do not 'guarantee' a set number of page views or click throughs and clearly state that advertisements are 'presence' advertisements. I don't want the hassle of having to track click throughs or other stats. However, a client can track click throughs if they provide a special URL. From that they can analyze their server logs and determine how many people click through to their site. Converson is another issue. I won't touch that one here.

But - I didn't bring this up as a revenue issue. I was thinking more of people's 'experience' in coming here having had experiences like EtobiLad's myself. And like I said, I'm just trying to sorta 'calibrate' myself as I consider how the forum is evolving and things I might do.

But - I didn't bring this up as a revenue issue. I was thinking more of people's 'experience' in coming here having had experiences like EtobiLad's myself. And like I said, I'm just trying to sorta 'calibrate' myself as I consider how the forum is evolving and things I might do.

I think we know that the vast majority of visitors don't register, but there could be word-of-mouth value in allowing non-registered visitors access to files.

I think we know that the vast majority of visitors don't register, but there could be word-of-mouth value in allowing non-registered visitors access to files.
That's sorta what I had been thinking, Jim.

Word of mouth value to whom?

Word of mouth value to whom?

There is a possibility that many people come here looking for something in particular and find it, but for whatever reasons there might be, don't want to register in order to get it. If those people could get what they were looking for without having to register, some of them will tell others where they got it, which will lead to more visitors, and a chance that some of them will register and participate, or will just visit and at least contribute to revenue generation. I can't see anything bad happening as a result of allowing non-registered visitors to download files.

I would say there are many visitors who chance upon the cove while looking for something specific. No damage to our website in letting them download whatever they want. It will only ensure that they come looking next time they need something specific.

They also will tell their friends. I have already told so many till date. Some of these friends will explore, and only a few will register. Even fewer will contribute.

I think it is the contributors that we all are really interested in. The cove is big enough to provide support to one time visitors and still keep growing in a meaningful way.

Today when I logged in there was a banner at top telling me that I havent posted in several weeks. I wonder how many such dormant registered members exist who have never once posted at all! All they do is surf, and occassionally download, maybe they have forgotten the site altogether.

Does the cove need such forced registrations? I would think not. Let us rather grow only with members who will really contribute and enrich the discussions we have. Bloating the numbers by force may not help in any meaningful way except, maybe, commercially. I dont know much on that aspect and would rather not comment.

Marc, I've seen quiet a few forums and non comes close in visual appeal, a phetora of topics, discussions/dialogues, threads, etc. It's just a terrific site!
and I love the emoticons especially this :bighug:

The only reason I registered was to get a free download on ISO. After registering I started to read some of the threads and found them highly informative. Now I'm a Cove junkie. :lol:

I also came looking for information that you have, if I didn't register I would not have explored further and even contributed the limited knowalge that I have. I thankyou for the way it is set up. And I thankyou for all your knowlage that you give for us to learn.:thanx:

I am in favor of requiring registration.... this is the best place I have found to discuss quality issues... the level of the members is outstanding... I learn more everyday... I see this forum as extremely professional (and humurous at times) and think we need to keep it that way... so I don´t see a problem in requiring a few minutes to register in order to access the forum.

I also am in favor of registration.

I don't plan to change the policy at this time.

I put this thought out a while back to gauge people's thoughts. Personally, I sorta want people to register because in a way it's an metric of interest, if not in the conversations in the files people share in attachments.

I haven't closed the thread because I'm always interested in feedback. Things change with time.

I don't plan to change the policy at this time.

I put this thought out a while back to gauge people's thoughts. Personally, I sorta want people to register because in a way it's an metric of interest, if not in the conversations in the files people share in attachments.

I haven't closed the thread because I'm always interested in feedback. Things change with time.

They certainly do Marc. By the way I like the new picture in your avatar. :agree1:

I think we have to look at the purpose of registration itself. Maybe this opens up a new survey...how many of us register to online sites with fake or not totally accurate information?;)

I think we have to look at the purpose of registration itself. Maybe this opens up a new survey...how many of us register to online sites with fake or not totally accurate information?;)

Jim, I think you pose an interesting thought. I think it's not too much of a stretch to admit this occurs all the time (fake/inaccurate information). This is especially true when someone wants to SPAM the site, sell stuff, etc.

The thought is that most of the people who log on here is interested in transacting quality information. Too, so many things come up here that requires an e-mail for someone, that it is nice to get that up front in the registration. With e-mail accessed through the profile, it just seems so much more professional, and minimizes the SPAM and junk someone would receive by having their e-mail out in the open forum.

Too, it is so helpful to Covers (especially moderators) to see what country someone is from. Many times a moderator can converse with that person in their native tongue (or close to it).

I generally think the information asked for here in registration is pertinent, and shouldn't merit needing to falsify things.

To your survey question-It would depend for me which site it is, what they are asking for, etc., as to whether I would falsify anything.

I think we have to look at the purpose of registration itself. Maybe this opens up a new survey...how many of us register to online sites with fake or not totally accurate information?;)


I'm guilty! Yes, I provide sometimes bogus information when I register at some sites because I do not want to be bothered with crap emails and phone calls. However, at The Cove Forums, no one (at least, not to my knowledge) bothers you and tries to sell you something. So I think it's good to know who comes here and wants to get stuff and then in turn never contributes....:(

Stijloor.

....So I think it's good to know who comes here and wants to get stuff and then in turn never contributes....:(

Stijloor.

You know what? That's not even an issue. Marc has expressed a number of times (and can certainly change his mind at any time) doesn't mind those who come to the Cove to get attachments, need help, etc. There are many people in that boat.

You know what? That's not even an issue. Marc has expressed a number of times (and can certainly change his mind at any time) doesn't mind those who come to the Cove to get attachments, need help, etc. There are many people in that boat.

Hi Brad,

I see your point and I have read Marc's comments a few times (obviously, it's his decision anyway). Personally, I would feel guilty to come and get stuff and never offer anything in return. That's just my view. BTW, I do not disagree with anyone here....just my personal choice.

Stijloor.

I think it's quite reasonable to ask for a bit of very basic information. I see it as polite and professional.

I don't mind providing it if I'm taking something away (eg, downloading files) although I do reserve an email address & name when I'm suspicious of their motives, to guard against getting spam-med more than I am now (if that were possible!)

I very much dislike being asked to register without being told what it involves, most particularly if the site then simply makes free with my name & email address to send whatever they like, when they like + sell email address on to others without ever having told me. But that's rarer these days.

I see it as a bit akin to meeting someone briefly in a professional setting - say a conference or seminar. If you're just handing out free brochures, you leave 'em on the table & people help themselves. But I'd rather at least have an idea of who I've talked to if I'm giving stuff away. I have a website & ask people to register before giving away stuff.

Disagree with Jim's reasoning that people will take it & tell others. Maybe. Is it not equally likely that they'll take it & pass it off as their own?

I do think people place low value on things that are free for the taking without let or hindrance. (Look at what happens to public transport!)

Hi Brad,

I see your point and I have read Marc's comments a few times (obviously, it's his decision anyway). Personally, I would feel guilty to come and get stuff and never offer anything in return. That's just my view. BTW, I do not disagree with anyone here....just my personal choice.

Stijloor.

Agree with you, Stijloor - even I would feel bad if I do not contribute in return to the valuable info that I got.

I think it's quite reasonable to ask for a bit of very basic information. I see it as polite and professional.

. . .

Disagree with Jim's reasoning that people will take it & tell others. Maybe. Is it not equally likely that they'll take it & pass it off as their own?

I do think people place low value on things that are free for the taking without let or hindrance. (Look at what happens to public transport!)I'm not sure it matters much to folks who are going to plagiarize work of others whether they fill in some anonymous bs for ID or not. Sadly, I'm willing to bet a LOT of downloads from here (as well as many other places) are passed off as the work product of the downloader. I've actually seen some of my own material reposted on the internet as authored by someone else. I don't mean "paraphrased," I mean word-for-word copies (I have a rather unique combination of vocabulary and syntax that I and others find easy to spot) to the point where I've had folks ask me why I am posting under another name.

I recognize the thieves are probably in two camps

The desperate ones who are in over their heads and steal to pass off as their own to save a job
Smarmy showoffs who hope to impress someone (anyone) how smart and knowledgeable they are The second category probably starts as a slippery slope with folks who are good researchers (libraries or googling the internet) and love the thrill of being able to show off with an "answer" for every question. Soon, it is "easier" to just omit the citation and just do a "cut & paste." With links breaking at a faster and faster rate (a big problem for us here in the Cove), the possibility and probability of being exposed as a thief drops exponentially.

For my own part, I stopped being mad when I discover plagiariism of my work, but I sure do feel sad.

Hi Brad,

...Personally, I would feel guilty to come and get stuff and never offer anything in return. That's just my view....
Stijloor.

I agree with you on that one!:agree1:

I'm not sure it matters much to folks who are going to plagiarize work of others whether they fill in some anonymous bs for ID or not. Sadly, I'm willing to bet a LOT of downloads from here (as well as many other places) are passed off as the work product of the downloader. I've actually seen some of my own material reposted on the internet as authored by someone else. I don't mean "paraphrased," I mean word-for-word copies (I have a rather unique combination of vocabulary and syntax that I and others find easy to spot) to the point where I've had folks ask me why I am posting under another name.

I recognize the thieves are probably in two camps

The desperate ones who are in over their heads and steal to pass off as their own to save a job
Smarmy showoffs who hope to impress someone (anyone) how smart and knowledgeable they areThe second category probably starts as a slippery slope with folks who are good researchers (libraries or googling the internet) and love the thrill of being able to show off with an "answer" for every question. Soon, it is "easier" to just omit the citation and just do a "cut & paste." With links breaking at a faster and faster rate (a big problem for us here in the Cove), the possibility and probability of being exposed as a thief drops exponentially.

For my own part, I stopped being mad when I discover plagiariism of my work, but I sure do feel sad.
:topic:
(The following is my feeble attempt at humor :lol:)

The problem is you have too much factual information in your posts. Wes, do consider the 80/20 rule. I practice it, well... about 80% of the time. When you type anything, have 80% of the information factual, with 20% being a load of hooey. Like an octopus, have the 80% wrap around and have it's tentacles within the 20% garbage. Have the facts actually support the stupid ideas.

Then, if someone tries to copy you-either they give up changing everything, or they quote you anyway. Then when they quote you... boy how stupid they look! After you do that for a while, no one will ever quote you again!:tg:

The present arrangement looks good to me. It allows viewing of the attachments, but enforces the need to register when trying to download them.

As long as technology make it possible (against viruses and spams) no problem!!

I visited this site for a very long time without contributing in any way. Having to register to download some information changed my relationship to the site. At first I was reluctant to participate since some Covers became irritable when newbies asked what they thought were questions which had been answered ad nauseum but I began to realize that you just have to become involved to get the most out of the Cove. When I am not able to visit because of lack of time, I suffer withdrawal symptoms - smile. Registering makes it feel like membership in a club of supportive members.

....At first I was reluctant to participate since some Covers became irritable when newbies asked what they thought were questions which had been answered ad nauseum...
My apologies. We're trying to eliminate responses such as you describe. There are discussion threads here where the problem is discussed, and I *hope* this is not a problem in the future.

As long as technology make it possible (against viruses and spams) no problem!!

In general, it works pretty well. By removing e-mail addresses from public posts and having them in the profile section, it greatly reduces spammers getting your e-mail. Since the spammer needs to register, moderators are quick to be cautious of "would-be" spammers. I am part of a team of moderators who are very diligent (and quite good) at dealing with would-be spammers. Another reason (IMHO) registration is a good thing.

I visited this site for a very long time without contributing in any way. Having to register to download some information changed my relationship to the site. At first I was reluctant to participate since some Covers became irritable when newbies asked what they thought were questions which had been answered ad nauseum but I began to realize that you just have to become involved to get the most out of the Cove. When I am not able to visit because of lack of time, I suffer withdrawal symptoms - smile. Registering makes it feel like membership in a club of supportive members.

Please.... don't ever feel intimidated to ask a question. Yes, we do ask that people generally read the FAQ and observe some general suggestions, but other than that, please feel free. Sometimes people ask questions that have been covered extensively; a quick search would reveal multiple responses. However, that does not mean it can't be covered again, and certainly does not merit a less-than-courteous response. I personally extend an apology next to Marc's.

If you ever feel that you (or someone else) has been treated wrongly, use the report post function or PM a moderator or Marc, and it will be addressed.

Now that you have a new "charge", I hope to start seeing some posts from you.:agree1:

By removing e-mail addresses from public posts and having them in the profile section, it greatly reduces spammers getting your e-mail.
Just to clarify, the actual email address of a Registered Visitor is NOT visible or obtainable in a Registered Visitor's profile. There is a link to send a 'blind' email to another member which the forum software then sends. This keeps email addresses totally private. The only deviation is if a Registered Visitor sends a 'blind' email to another Registered Visitor. In that case, the senders email address will be in the actual email to the person they are sending the email to. It is *assumed* that if someone sends someone else an email that they don't care if the person they are sending the email to gets their actual email address.

This is where the forum software PM (Personal Message) system comes in. When one Registered Visitor wants to send another Registered Visitor a message, but doesn't want their email address exposed, or doesn't want to send an actual email for whatever reason, the person can use the PM system which doesn't use emails at all.
If you ever feel that you (or someone else) has been treated wrongly, use the report post function or PM a moderator or Marc, and it will be addressed.
Yes! Please! Using the Report This Post feature is highly recommended. Every Registered Visitor who is Logged In will see the http://elsmar.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif button at the top of every post.

I like the idea of having to register before downloading. If people have to register before downloading, they might just hang around long enough to contribute to the forums.

Regards -John

Well, if I get this straight maybe we are mixing two issues....One...if we have technology(and apparently as it was answered in one of the posts), I think that for new comers it would be easier for them to get a gist without registering. 2) There should be some kind identification for new professionals and for new people , this is the right place where we have Masters BUT.......................as well as an identification for the new people in the field, we should develop an identification for the masters THAT DON´T HAVE THE TIME OR ARE NOT WILLING TO SHARE EXPERIENCES WITH ROOKIES , they only wanna share ideas and experiences with experienced and high level professionals. It´s their right ..don´t you think!!!

I think it's their right but not in the spirit or intent of the forum. If the "Masters" can't or won't spread their knowledge to make the world a better place then they are just as guilty to contributing to poor quality as the ignorant IMHO. :agree:

I agree..but you know...some people may be reluctant or impatient to take care of new inexperienced people...!! That was my point!!