Hi,

I a bit of a dilema & would appriciate some advice.

We are in the process of implementing TS16949 at our site. We are coming under our 'group' certification as a 'remote location'.
The problem I have is - should we carry out incoming inspection & if we should how to go about it.
As a remote location we receive parts (fasteners) from our manufacturing units as finished goods & semi-finished goods.
We also buy product from outside the group.
We then send semi-finished product out to plating suppliers outside of the group.
We probably receive somewhere in the region of 20million pcs of product a week covering approximately 200 - 300 different products.
What would satisfy TS in this area?

Thanks.

Emma

Hi,

I a bit of a dilema & would appriciate some advice.

We are in the process of implementing TS16949 at our site. We are coming under our 'group' certification as a 'remote location'.
The problem I have is - should we carry out incoming inspection & if we should how to go about it.
As a remote location we receive parts (fasteners) from our manufacturing units as finished goods & semi-finished goods.
We also buy product from outside the group.
We then send semi-finished product out to plating suppliers outside of the group.
We probably receive somewhere in the region of 20million pcs of product a week covering approximately 200 - 300 different products.
What would satisfy TS in this area?

Thanks.

Emma




Hello Emma. What is your current procedure for incoming (receiving) insp.? If you have one follow it, if not write one. You can tailor this procedure to meet your needs. If this is a good vendor(s) you can inspect so many shipments and if there are no rejects, put them on your approved suppliers list. Once on your approved suppliers list you won't have to inspect every shipment, if the need arises you can do a dock audit on the shipment in question. Just MHO.

Hi Dean,

Thanks for your response.

We don't currently have any procedures, our side of the group has never been accredited to any quality system!
All our suppliers are on an Approved Suppliers List as this is controlled by Global Purchasing within the group. The list is open to all our sites & these are the suppliers that must be used. Most of the suppliers have supplied to the group for many years.
Can we get away with just doing an incoming check on the product label against the delivery notes?
Then write a procedure for incoming inspection of product from new suppliers & new product from existing suppliers??

Thanks

Emma

See clause 7.4.3.2 Note 4 shall's apply.

You can't avoid all incoming inspection because you will need to justify the effectiveness of your suppliers in some way.

You could try tailoring your inwards inspection levels on the basis of customer complaints etc. No problems then little infrequent inspection. Lots of problems higher frequency.

Emma, as long as your suppliers are on a approved suppliers list there is no need for receiving insp., for new suppliers or product change yes write a procedure, remember there should be a history record of acceptable product received with no rejects( a lot of this will depend on how often, how many, and criticalness of parts received) before you can place them on your own approved suppliers list. In response to Martin, this is where you can perform a occasional Dock Audit as stated in my first response to you.

( I am not sure if "criticalness" is actually a word but it sounded good and I think you know what it means, I speak fluent Italian, a lot of German, some Spanish so I forget if all the words I use are real or something I made up.)

Thanks Martin.

My gut feeling was that we'd have to carry out some form of incoming inspection.
The problem I'm running into is we have no human resource to be able to do this & our MD is extremely reluctant to employ someone to do this!
Could we inspect by supplier rather than by part unless there was a repeated problem with a specific part?
Randomly sample deliveries from each supplier each week using a common incoming audit sheet?

Emma

Thanks Martin.

My gut feeling was that we'd have to carry out some form of incoming inspection.
The problem I'm running into is we have no human resource to be able to do this & our MD is extremely reluctant to employ someone to do this!
Could we inspect by supplier rather than by part unless there was a repeated problem with a specific part?
Randomly sample deliveries from each supplier each week using a common incoming audit sheet?

Emma

Emma -

How are your parts received right now? Does someone do a "count and condition" upon receipt? If you have no issues with parts, set-up a "dock-to-stock" program.

I work for a sheet metal fab shop (non-automotive, so I can't help you on the TS issues). Our sheet stock and our threaded inserts are inspected by the receiving person for "count and condition" only, ditto on the parts received from our platers.

Hope this helps a bit.

Hi CarolX,

At the moment product documentation (box / pallet labels) is checked to ensure it corresponds with the delivery notes - part no', qty, condition.
Basically we rely on the warehouse guy's experience of knowing the parts!!
What is a 'dock to stock' system?

Thanks

Emma

Emma, as long as your suppliers are on a approved suppliers list there is no need for receiving insp., for new suppliers or product change yes write a procedure, remember there should be a history record of acceptable product received with no rejects( a lot of this will depend on how often, how many, and criticalness of parts received) before you can place them on your own approved suppliers list. In response to Martin, this is where you can perform a occasional Dock Audit as stated in my first response to you.

( I am not sure if "criticalness" is actually a word but it sounded good and I think you know what it means, I speak fluent Italian, a lot of German, some Spanish so I forget if all the words I use are real or something I made up.)

Dean

I understand the word (I mainly speak "Yorkshire") and agree with the sentiment but the point I was trying to make was there there are "shalls" here.

EMMA said she had no history (although customer complaints could be a basis) and to to justify your decision on existing suppliers, you need something.

New suppliers total agreement with your suggestion.

Thanks Martin.

My gut feeling was that we'd have to carry out some form of incoming inspection.
The problem I'm running into is we have no human resource to be able to do this & our MD is extremely reluctant to employ someone to do this!
Could we inspect by supplier rather than by part unless there was a repeated problem with a specific part?
Randomly sample deliveries from each supplier each week using a common incoming audit sheet?

Emma

Emma
I personnaly have no problem in just inspecting on a supplier basis rather than part basis (we do here) and set the frequency and inspection sample level on the basis of history and problems. The point I was probably making poorly is that you need to justify the levels you set.

Thanks to you all.

My gut feelings about incoming inspection were right from past experience. I used to work for a Japanese bearing manufacturer & incoming inspection was always carried out. MOst of our customers there insisted on it!
I've been working for my new employer for 4 months now & at a previous attempt to carry out incoming inspection years ago they used to check a couple of parts from each part no' against a master sample board! At that time this board contained over 200 different pcs!!! When I started back in October I immediately informed them that I wouldn't be responsible for this - too many samples, many out of date & they should be controlled!!! External auditors would love it!!

Emma

Martin,

I feel it would be easier to inspect by supplier as we only have around 30 into our site whereas if we inspect by product we'd require 2 people continuously inspecting day & night due to the quantity of product coming through the warehouse. Much of which is booked in then immediately booked out at the moment.

By the way in a previous thread you said you mainly talk 'yorkshire' - where are you from? I'm a yorkshire lass but work in Scunthorpe which now comes under north lincolnshire!

Emma

Hello Emma:

You could treat this situation just like a shopping trip to Tesco/Sainsbury's. There are some products from suppliers that you just put in your trolley, having done a quick check for contents and damage - like cornflakes.

Then, when you get to the fruit & veg. you do some checking for bruising, ripeness etc.

When buying dairy things, you look for the sell by dates and (if you're like me) do a check your eggs. (no, not by shaking the carton!)

So, what's all this based on ?? - a supplier's past performance. Suppliers such as (your equivalent of) Kelloggs have a process which assures quality. Rarely does anyone have a problem with Kelloggs products.

The green grocery side isn't as good, so you have to perform some checks and you don't want to get all the way home only to find that the eggs are broken in the carton or the yogurt is off (and checking at source isn't viable, eh!!)

You should select the inspection based on past issues with certain suppliers. When I worked for a certain English company, the data showed our two worst suppliers were our sister company and our raw material supplier (for reasons I won't go into here!!) Most other suppliers did very well over a period of time and we stopped doing any 'inspection' merely verified the delivery note, damage etc.

Hope this helps a fellow Brit!

Andy

Martin,


By the way in a previous thread you said you mainly talk 'yorkshire' - where are you from? I'm a yorkshire lass but work in Scunthorpe which now comes under north lincolnshire!

Emma

:topic:

(H)alifax - pronounced without the H.

And if you think you have problems, I had to move to Lancashire :lol:

What is a 'dock to stock' system?



Qualify your suppliers, then...
Upon receipt of product, parts go directly to stock or to the line.

Obviously - a little more work than that, but that is the short description.