I am waiting on the AS9100 technical specifications booklet to arrive from SAE, but was wondering in the meantime what the requirements are for Internal Auditors? Do we need to send someone off for AS9100 training?

Currently we are ISO/TS certified, we have two persons with TS internal audit training w/ core tools, and one person (ME!) with TS internal audit training. (I believe I will have to have the 2 or 3 day TS core tool training since I will be the person conducting 90% of the internal audits.) Thanks in advance!

Oh, and I tried :read: previous posts and couldn't find a difinitive answer...

Welcome :bigwave:

You can define your internal auditor training requirements (whatever they may be) in your subject internal procedure.

Although not mandatory, some AS9100 training would be a good idea if you can make it happen.

I'd love to attend AS training, not sure how that will fly with Top Management right now though. Thanks for the answer. :agree1:

I am waiting on the AS9100 technical specifications booklet to arrive from SAE, but was wondering in the meantime what the requirements are for Internal Auditors? Do we need to send someone off for AS9100 training? Neil, there is no special/additional requirement for internal auditor competence for AS9100. If you understand the requirements of AS9100 and is already deemed competent as an internal quality system auditor, you don't need to have any additional training.

The AS adder in 8.2.2 reads:

Detailed tools and techniques shall be developed such as checksheets, process flowcharts, or any similar method to support audit of the quality management system requirements. The acceptability of the selected tools will be measured against the effectiveness of the internal audit process and overall organization performance.
Internal audits shall also meet contract and/or regulatory requirements.

I'd love to attend AS training, not sure how that will fly with Top Management right now though. Thanks for the answer. :agree1:


In our case, I just put together a short AS9100 overview presentation to supplement the basic auditor training that our internal auditors need to have per our procedure (we allow several sources or options for said training). Look at it as a CI process. Your auditors can never be too well trained, IMO.

In the end, it is really up to you as long as your program is effective.

If you are TS 16949 certified your internal audit program currently exceeds (I feel) the requirement of AS9100 clause 8.2.2 if you are using core tools from TS in this process. Two key items in this clause requires is the organizations determination of the acceptability of audit tools and techniques used to develop/perform audits and the need to include regulatory and contract requirements for internal audits.

Your biggest problem may be trying to align the requirements of TS and AS within you system. Here is an example of one of the fun number alignments of the two standards:

AS9100 Clause 7.3.6.2 Verification and Validation Testing
TS-16949 Clause 7.3.6.2 Prototype program

Thanks for all the input!

Your biggest problem may be trying to align the requirements of TS and AS within you system. Here is an example of one of the fun number alignments of the two standards:

AS9100 Clause 7.3.6.2 Verification and Validation Testing
TS-16949 Clause 7.3.6.2 Prototype program

That is a problem. I'm thinking we may have an out of sorts due to the fact that only one "division" produces aerospace parts and it is located in a seperate building (next door). That building is not ISO or TS at this point because it is not required (no auto work). However, we would like to use the same purchasing departments, the same shipping departments, the same routers, work orders, etc.. This will take more investigation (and use of the board) on my part. :read: Also, it is my understanding that we need a years worth of internal audits (not yet started) before going for AS certification.

Your biggest problem may be trying to align the requirements of TS and AS within you system. Here is an example of one of the fun number alignments of the two standards:

AS9100 Clause 7.3.6.2 Verification and Validation Testing
TS-16949 Clause 7.3.6.2 Prototype program

Why would this 'alignment' be a problem? The numbering of the ruling requirements ('AS' or 'TS') has nothing to do with how a system is established, implemented and improved.:nope:

Yes, a small cross reference matrix might help the MR and an external auditor too, I guess, but don't develop a QMS around the numbering of clauses.......

As far as auditors are concerned, why do they have to know the standard? Do they only audit to these requirements? Isn't your QMS developed to meet AS9100 and ISO/TS 16949? Their function is, therefore to verify the system is in place, implemented and effective, w/o 'worrying' what the standard says.:yes:

Management (of the part of the business with responsibility for the aerospace customers/AS requirements) should have knowledge of the AS9100 requirements, to develop the system.:yes:

What would be important is that the auditors (assigned to audit the aerospace aspects) are somewhat familiar with your system to address the AS9100 requirements (especially customer/FAA requirements etc). Put another way 'don't use someone from another department!', just to meet the 'independence' rule.....:mg:

Andy

but don't develop a QMS around the numbering of clauses.......



Good point, and we haven't to this point...however, for sake of ease, would it have been so difficult to differentiate the clause numbering? :confused: