Just signed up to attend an ISO 14001 lead auditor class. I've heard this class has a large failure rate and was just wondering if there was anything I should do or study prior to taking the class that should help my chance of passing.

Thanks for any input.
CD

When is the class?

If you have time to get your hands on it, I liked Ken Whitelaw's "ISO 14001 Environmental Systems Handbook."

February

February

If you're familiar with (in general) auditing, environmental issues and the standard, all you should have to do is stay awake, pay attention, and ask questions if there's anything you don't understand.

Thanks for the info Jim. We've been ISO 14001 certified since 2002 so I'm familiar with the system. We've always had outside consultants handle the lead auditing while we just assisted with the internal audits. My only concern was while doing research I had discovered the high failure rate so I thought we may have been missing or would be experiencing something in the class that we weren't prepared for.

Thanks again,
CD

Thanks for the info Jim. We've been ISO 14001 certified since 2002 so I'm familiar with the system. We've always had outside consultants handle the lead auditing while we just assisted with the internal audits. My only concern was while doing research I had discovered the high failure rate so I thought we may have been missing or would be experiencing something in the class that we weren't prepared for.

Thanks again,
CD

You're welcome. I've never taken the course myself, but I think that if there is a high failure rate it's because there are a lot of mopes taking it. Since you've been involved in auditing a registered system for a few years, you shouldn't have any trouble.

Thanks again.

If the course has a high failure rate why did you sign up for it (meaning this particular one)? That indicates to me that something is way off either in delivery or materials.

We occasionally have a "lack of complete success" but it is normally because either what was being asked was not responded to as required ("Give 5 examples...and they only give one) or there was no attempt at all, or the student does not practice good time management, or the reference materials are not used (it's an OPEN BOOK test, I can become a brain surgeon or rocket scientist if I could take the test with an open book).

As for studying something, here's the deal. If the course is RABQSA accredited then the provider must be able to verify (though documentation) that the student was familiar with ISO 14001 before the start of the course. Here is the actual requirement. If your provider has not done this I would ask them why they aren't.

RABQSA TP4.EMSLA
3.0 COURSE STRUCTURE, TRAINING METHODS AND FACILITIES

3.1 Course Pre-requisites
3.1.1 Each student shall be required to have studied the current published version of ISO
14001 prior to attending the course.

3.1.2 The training provider shall develop procedures to ensure that potential students are
advised of this prerequisite and that the prerequisite is met.


The only thing you should really study (please don't try to memorize it), regardless of what others might say, is ISO 14001:2004. I know, I have been involved in the writing of this type of course and I have delivered more than you could put in a bushel basket.

My suggestion is this.....keep your phone turned off and don't let your organization bother you during your week, you will be busy! A Lead Auditor course is work! It is intense work, and chuckleheaded managers, surpervisors, poopa's and hoopty-doos need to understand that. You not basking in the sun at some plush hotel, starting at 9AM and getting done at 430PM like some of the short training courses out there.

Try to rest on Saturday and arrive early enough Sunday at the venue hotel to have a good dinner, relax and get a good nights rest. Don't get snockered!

Good luck.

Thanks Randy

I might have been misinformed. I had been told by a few people that had taken the 14000 lead auditor course that it didn't matter by whom you were taught that all of the 14000 lead auditor courses had around a 60% failure rate. I just couldn't see why it would be so high if people with a background with 14000 were attending the classes.

Thanks
CD

I'm not advertising.............

I really don't know what happens with other course providers, but if we had a 60% failure rate there would be some serious soul searching before it was allowed to continue (starting with me because I am the responsible party at least here in N. America for EMS and OHS).

We probably grade as hard as anyone does and I think the rate is in the 80's-90's for our courses. We also do 2nd, 3rd and even 4th gradings, all with different graders, to provide every benefit of the doubt to the student. We cannot base success on the lack of success of others. We teach the material not according to us, but according to "it".

I'm sure the 60% you heard is wrong or mis-stated.

Study your 14001 and get some rest.

Thanks again. I thought that was a very high rate of failure but when I was told that by more than one person and they had taken the class from three or four different providers.

Thanks again for the info they may have just been trying to make us worry a bit all in good fun.

CD

Hi,

In my opinion the term "ISO - 14001 LEAD auditors Course" is a little confusing; it is possible that this course is the first step towards the LEAD AUDITOR qualification (defined in ISO-19011). Please bear this in mind when you go for such a course. (I am not sure if this is relevant in the USA; in the Asia Pacific Region people do come to such courses thinking that they would become LEAD AUDITORS once they pass the course to realize later that this is the first step).

I thought I would also inform you the pre-course requirements from IEMA (for IEMA approved EMS Advanced Auditors Courses) - Quote:

"All attendees must be familiar with the text of ISO 14001 (or EMAS in the EU), either by attending an IEMA approved course or through completion of pre-course work designed to ensure this understanding.

Pre-course reading material should include:
• the latest issue of ISO 19011 and appropriate extracts from the relevant accreditation authority guidelines (e.g. in the EU; European co-operation for Accreditation ‘Guidelines for the Accreditation of Certification Bodies for Environmental Management Systems’ EA-7/02, or equivalent). ...........

Suggested reading material should include:

• ISO 14004 Environmental Management Systems – General Guidelines on principles, systems and supporting techniques,

• ISO 14031 Environmental Management - Environmental Performance Evaluation – Guidelines"

The above may give you some idea as to what is expected of a delegate for an EMS Advanced EMS Auditors course approved by IEMA (UK).

I wish you all the best and success in your course work.

Ramakrishnan

I'm sorry Dr "R" but this time I am going to disagree with you. While the material you suggest is nice, it isn't relevant to the course he is going to be taking. They make good references, but nothing more, and as you know auditing isn't performed to them.

As for the IEMA, it isn't relevant either for an RABQSA accredited course. As for 19011, the course is required to be built along its guidlines and the students are to become familiar with it. Hopefully the provider gives the students a copy.

Also the term "Lead Auditor Course" is not confusing, that's what it is called by the accreditation body.

Environmental Management System (EMS)
Lead Auditor Training Course
RABQSA TP4.EMSLA
1 July 2005

I'm not advertising.............If we had a 60% failure rate there would be some serious soul searching before it was allowed to continue .......

I'm sure the 60% you heard is wrong or mis-stated.

Study your 14001 and get some rest.

I agree with all the above, and with Jim's wise comments.

If you are doing it via a reputable provider (meaning not a dodgy operation), then the strategies of staying awake, participating, and asking questions if you aren't sure, plus actually doing the assignments/work/whatever, combined with your own experience, will see you through. I similarly find the 60% failure rate 'no matter what you do' sounds extremely unlikely.

No issues Randy...You are right...the information may not be relevant to those who attend such courses in the USA (unless they attend IEMA approved courses; I am not sure if IEMA approved courses are conducted in the USA). I just wanted to give information on what is happening in Europe and the Asia Pacific...just an input from experience.

As for the "Lead Auditor course", I understand that IRCA approved courses are called that way..again I shared my experience with the delegates of such courses.

With best regards,

Ramakrishnan

You're correct Dr. "R", the IRCA courses also use the name Lead Auditor Course.

As a matter of "customer service" we give eveyone a copy of 19011 as part of the course materials (they get to take it home), and we also give everyone a copy of 14004 to keep. We use 14004 to help support the information contained in Annex "A" 14001.