Hello everyone,

I am new to the Quality game but through courses and constant reading I am learning very quickly. I do have my frist question for the Forum. My superior had asked me to research the possibilty of becoming Self Certified. I can not seem to find any information on this. In fact, I had never heard of it until now. Is there a proper protocal to follow and if so who issues the certification?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Francis

Welcome to The Cove Francis! :bigwave:

Are you talking about professional certification or registration to ISO?

If you're referring to professional certification, what is your job?

If you mean registration to ISO, what industry are you working in?

Thanks for the welcome Jennifer! :D

Well... the goal is to become ISO certified but for the time being he would like us to shoot for a "Self Certification". I informed him I would research it as I had no idea what he was talking about.

My job is Quality Assurance Manager and I am currently in the Filtration field.

Self certification certainly is not unheard of. You can use internal auditors to perform the check, but an even better approach, IMO, would be to get a voulnteer from outside the company to audit you to ISO 9001. Maybe your local ASQ section would be a resource?

If you get a clean audit you can say that you are self-certified. It likely won't carry as much weight as a real third party certification, though.

The main thing, though is to use a template to inprove and maintain your processes. ISO 9001 can work, as can the National and State Quality Award criteria.

I knew of a calibration facility that declared themselves "compliant" without claiming certification to the standard. This meant they were "certifying" they had all the controls in place, but did not go so far as to have the registrar come out because the costs were greater than they wanted to bear at that time.

Maybe that is what your boss meant.

Francis,

Try this link http://www.searchmanufacturing.com/SDCAC/index.htm

Hope it helps... I found it doing a quick search in Google, maybe with a little more time, you can find more info there...

Hello everyone,

I am new to the Quality game but through courses and constant reading I am learning very quickly. I do have my frist question for the Forum. My superior had asked me to research the possibilty of becoming Self Certified. I can not seem to find any information on this. In fact, I had never heard of it until now. Is there a proper protocal to follow and if so who issues the certification?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Francis

Welcome to the Cove from a fellow Granite-stater...:tg: you wouldn't happen to work in Ossipee would you??? The key to your question is the "self" part and how far your company would want to go to lend some legitimacy to any self-certification / compliance claims. The 2nd party audit is a good idea to lend some credibility; I'm sure there are others. If your company does self-certification up right, it seems to me like doing all the work without the payoff; buy the car but don't drive it anywhere!:2cents:

I knew of a calibration facility that declared themselves "compliant" without claiming certification to the standard. This meant they were "certifying" they had all the controls in place, but did not go so far as to have the registrar come out because the costs were greater than they wanted to bear at that time.

Maybe that is what your boss meant.


This is not unusual if your customers do not require 3rd party registration by an approved certification body registrar.
You can declare your system as "ISO9001:2000 Compliant", but you need to be able to back it up with objective evidence.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!Try the following threads:

Certified to ISG 9000 - A 'Self Certification' Scheme (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10723&highlight=self+declaration)

If ANSI can self-declare, why not you? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=14284&highlight=self+declaration)

And also check the bottom part of my post (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=93225&postcount=41)

Good for you. From what you describe, you have a good, solid process in place. You might want to consider your suppliers to become educated in the Self Declaration Guidance issued by ISO. Check http://www.iso.org/iso/en/commcentre/pressreleases/2004/Ref939.html (http://www.iso.org/iso/en/commcentre/pressreleases/2004/Ref939.html)



Ref.: 939
11 November 2004

Suppliers' declarations of conformity given added weight by new ISO/IEC standard

A new ISO/IEC standard defines requirements for suppliers (including manufacturers) to meet when they make formal claims that products, services, systems, processes or materials conform to relevant standards, regulations or other specifications.

Claims that meet the requirements of ISO/IEC 17050 are expected to inspire greater confidence among governments, regulatory authorities, consumers and end users than claims without such backing. This is because the standard represents an international consensus on good practice and establishes a benchmark that can be applied in all business sectors and in all countries.

ISO/IEC 17050 offers a framework for what is designated technically as a "supplier's declaration of conformity (SDoC)". An SDoC is one of the ways in which a supplier may seek to demonstrate conformity. This might be required, for example, by health, safety or environmental regulations - or is desirable because conformity gives potential purchasers greater confidence.

Other ways are by inviting the customer to verify conformity, or by engaging a specialized independent body, such as a testing laboratory or inspection service, to issue a certificate of conformity (e.g. product certification). An SDoC is less time-consuming than either of these options, which means that products can be developed and brought to market faster. It is also cheaper and the economies made by the supplier can be passed on to the customer.

The publication of ISO/IEC 17050 puts at the disposal of suppliers and manufacturers an SDoC methodology with greater transparency, added rigour and globally harmonized practice - which is likely to increase the use of this option in world trade. While streamlining the conformity assessment process, it does not remove the obligation of suppliers and manufacturers to conform to relevant regulations and other legal requirements - which is likely to encourage its acceptance by authorities, as well as the confidence of customers.

The new standard is in two parts. Part 1 specifies the general requirements for an SDoC. Its intent is to increase the value of an SDoC by establishing a clearly understandable International Standard for this conformity assessment option, and also to encourage its use by making the SDoC more acceptable to government and regulatory institutions. Part 1 includes a sample SDoC.

Part 2 is on supporting documentation to substantiate an SDoC, for example, results of tests carried out by the supplier or an independent body in order to meet legal requirements. Again, the intent is to encourage acceptance of an SDoC by customers and authorities.

ISO/IEC 17050 was developed by Working Group (WG) 24 of ISO/CASCO, Committee on conformity assessment. WG 24 Convenor, Joel Urman, comments: "The cost and time savings that result from SDoC unquestionably benefit suppliers of products, processes, services and systems. SDoC also significantly benefits their customers and all those who use and need their offerings."

ISO/IEC 17050-1:2004, Conformity assessment - Supplier's declaration of conformity - Part 1: General requirements, costs 47 Swiss francs. ISO/IEC 17050-2:2004, Conformity assessment - Supplier's declaration of conformity - Part 2: Supporting documentation, costs 34 Swiss francs. Both are available from ISO national member institutes (see the complete list (http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/ISOstore/memberstores.html) with contact details) and from ISO Central Secretariat.

Thank you so much to everyone who responded. This helps immensely!! :D

New to ISO process. What is the average costs of ISO9000 certification.

New to ISO process. What is the average costs of ISO9000 certification.For a company like yours with approximately 40 employees, the initial certification effort investment would be between $5-8k and the annual surveillance audits around $2-4k in auditor fees. Depending on the CB you select, their day rates, etc.
Keep in mind that these are the certification fees. Implementation fees are typically much higher.

There is a good article on this by Amy Zuckerman in the July 16,1998 Purchasing magazine entitled Industry Cooperation on Standards and Conformit Assessment. May want to look at the ICSCA, not sure if they have a web site. BIg companies were members of it and supported SDoC

Hello everyone,

I am new to the Quality game but through courses and constant reading I am learning very quickly. I do have my frist question for the Forum. My superior had asked me to research the possibilty of becoming Self Certified. I can not seem to find any information on this. In fact, I had never heard of it until now. Is there a proper protocal to follow and if so who issues the certification?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Francis
Dear Francis,

According to my understanding of your posting, bye the term "self certification" your superior meant to say whether the ISO 9001:2000 (I am specifically mentioning about ISO 9k) can be implemented without engaging the services of a consultant !!!! If so then my answer is possible..but you have to ask yourself whether you can devote how much time apart from your daily job schedule !!!!!

In my experience of working as a lead auditor in a leading CB , I have seen some very good self created and self maintained QMS's , although very few.

If you want to follow a strict time schedule you have to prepare a time chart where in you have to assign rigid time frame for the documentation and other relevent issues.

The following may be your course of action point and priority wise:

1. Form a quality steering commitee with atleast one decision makink member from the Top mnagement.
2. Go for ISO awareness / internal auditor / lead assessor training , so that all the commitee members know about the QMS. You have to take the help of a third party in doing this.
3. Define the scope of QMS and Audit
4.Your top management should define the quality policy , mission and vision statement of the QMS/ Organization
5.Identify the the exclusions (if any)
6.Complete the documentation process, documentation includes quality manual, at least 6 mandatory procedures, work instructions, quality plans, document and record formats, the quality manuals and procedures should be in line with the ISO 9K standard requirements.
7.Start collecting data in the designed formats and records
8. Register with the CB, you must ensure that you have implemented the QMS atleast for 3 months before the final third party audit.
9. Go for the first cycle of internal audits and MRM.
10.Go for CAPA based on the internal audit findings.
11.Call the third party CB for pre-asessment audit ( You can skip this step if you are confident on your own system.
12. call the third party for the final certification audit.

This is the total certification process in a nutshell. If you go for a consultant, it will make your life easy as they will do the time framing for all this steps..and help you out in all the difficulties you are facing during following these outline.

But afterall it is your organization which has to take the initiative.

Cheers

Arindam

Try the following threads:

Certified to ISG 9000 - A 'Self Certification' Scheme (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10723&highlight=self+declaration)

If ANSI can self-declare, why not you? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=14284&highlight=self+declaration)

And also check the bottom part of my post (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=93225&postcount=41)


Dear Sidney

the declaration of conformity concerns only the product but how about the system which is the first concern of FRANSCISJB .

Bear in mind that self-certification bears no basis for a customer to trust in. This forum already has discussed plenty of formally certified companies whose system can't be trusted for much. In that context, a self-proclaimed compliance provides little.

I can self-proclaim that I am a smart and clever fellow, but I doubt prospective customers would place any value on that proclamation.

I can self-proclaim that I am a smart and clever fellow, but I doubt prospective customers would place any value on that proclamation.

It's not a simple self-proclaimation , it's a commitment from the company that it respects the requirements of ISO 9001 .

We should trust in such commitments where are based on standards or specification .

such commitment to a standard is like personal commitment to ethics :
we follow the ethic of respecting neigbourhood for example without having the certificate proving it !

It's not a simple self-proclaimation , it's a commitment from the company that it respects the requirements of ISO 9001 .

We should trust in such commitments where are based on standards or specification .

such commitment to a standard is like personal commitment to ethics :
we follow the ethic of respecting neigbourhood for example without having the certificate proving it !


I agree that a personal commitment is good. But, there is still no assurance to a customer whether you are truly committed.

If I SAY I am truly committed to being a smart and clever fellow, that does not make it more reliable. Such a commitment is only useful inside the organization. There can be significant benefit if you truly are committed to the principles. But, to customers, they would still have to test whether you stand behind it. Frankly, they even need to test whether certified companies are indeed committed.

Just a thought.....

What if the Organization publishes on it´s website that it is "compliant" to a standard... states it´s Policy and Objectives.... to "prove" it´s compliance, the organization could publish the results of it´s KPI´s with graphs or just stating the results of them... this could help demonstrate to it´s customers that the organization is attending the standard in question...

Just a thought.....

What if the Organization publishes on it´s website that it is "compliant" to a standard... states it´s Policy and Objectives.... to "prove" it´s compliance, the organization could publish the results of it´s KPI´s with graphs or just stating the results of them... this could help demonstrate to it´s customers that the organization is attending the standard in question...

Sure. The premise of my reply was that self-certifying is better than no commitment at all. I am committed to certain things in my life - integrity, continual learning and improvement, customer benefit, honesty, christian faith. I am committed to these and they definitely influence the behaviors inside my company. But, externally, a customer would only have faith in my commitments when they see evidence.

A 3rd party certification was intended to show evidence. Unfortunately, as we have discussed, even that is not always worth the paper it is printed on, but it is a start. A self-proclamation of compliance may not carry much weight.

Perhaps, making a self-proclamation on a website would be good. Perhaps, providing some direct evidence may create more confidence. PPM's, Delivery, "Zero Customer complaints" if you can honestly state that. After all, that is the basis for the J.D. Power rankings of quality.

The proof is in the pudding wether you have the receipe hanging on the wall or not.

Dear Francis,

According to my understanding of your posting, bye the term "self certification" your superior meant to say whether the ISO 9001:2000 (I am specifically mentioning about ISO 9k) can be implemented without engaging the services of a consultant !!!! If so then my answer is possible..but you have to ask yourself whether you can devote how much time apart from your daily job schedule !!!!!

In my experience of working as a lead auditor in a leading CB , I have seen some very good self created and self maintained QMS's , although very few.

If you want to follow a strict time schedule you have to prepare a time chart where in you have to assign rigid time frame for the documentation and other relevent issues.

The following may be your course of action point and priority wise:

1. Form a quality steering commitee with atleast one decision makink member from the Top mnagement.
2. Go for ISO awareness / internal auditor / lead assessor training , so that all the commitee members know about the QMS. You have to take the help of a third party in doing this.
3. Define the scope of QMS and Audit
4.Your top management should define the quality policy , mission and vision statement of the QMS/ Organization
5.Identify the the exclusions (if any)
6.Complete the documentation process, documentation includes quality manual, at least 6 mandatory procedures, work instructions, quality plans, document and record formats, the quality manuals and procedures should be in line with the ISO 9K standard requirements.
7.Start collecting data in the designed formats and records
8. Register with the CB, you must ensure that you have implemented the QMS atleast for 3 months before the final third party audit.
9. Go for the first cycle of internal audits and MRM.
10.Go for CAPA based on the internal audit findings.
11.Call the third party CB for pre-asessment audit ( You can skip this step if you are confident on your own system.
12. call the third party for the final certification audit.

This is the total certification process in a nutshell. If you go for a consultant, it will make your life easy as they will do the time framing for all this steps..and help you out in all the difficulties you are facing during following these outline.

But afterall it is your organization which has to take the initiative.

Cheers

Arindam

I myself have just gotten into the Quality game I guess you could say.I need some defintions for CB,MRM,CAPA.Nice write up however.

This is not unusual if your customers do not require 3rd party registration by an approved certification body registrar.
You can declare your system as "ISO9001:2000 Compliant", but you need to be able to back it up with objective evidence.

I agree with Ralph, especially if this objective evidence includes exemplary performance in quality, delivery, and bottom-line results.

Stijloor.

I myself have just gotten into the Quality game I guess you could say.I need some defintions for CB,MRM,CAPA.Nice write up however.


Dear Unitedc,

Welcome to the cove:bigwave: . The very purpose of the cove is to help and get help as and when required. During my earlier days in the cove, I was a bit shaky , because I was not quite sure how the covites are going to behave in reaction to my so called "nonsense" questions ;) ; But I must appreciate that I was wrong. Every experienced covite has tried to guide me in the best possible way. Thats the best part of the cove. Thank you all. Now I am sort of addicted to it..and find it quite uneasy if i am not able to reach to the cove.Let the quest continue.

Now coming to the topic:

CB: Certification Body
MRM:Management Review Meeting
CAPA: Corrective action & Preventive Action

Please come up with any damn question which is ticking into your mind, you will find someone to answer your question.

Cheers:cool:

Arindam