Hello Everybody,

I had a question related to Training requirements in ISO9001 para 6.2.2. I was curious to know how other plants handled the salaried employee training.

In one of my previous audits the auditor found about 2 instances where manufacturing did not sign-off on discrepant material sign-off sheets and there were few fields that were left blank which should have been marked "N/A".
As required by one of our procedure engineering, quality and manufacturing all three have to sign-off on discrepant material dispositions. So I was written up. As a fix I modified the forms removed fields not required, informed all concerned departments through email and closed the non conformance saying form modified and concerned parties trained. So the next time around auditor comes and asks me for training documentation/evidence that training was conducted. He said sending email is not training. One discussion lead to another and finally he said he wants to see records indicating salaried personnel and the corresponding procedures they are trained in?

I have absolute no training records of salaried personnel and the procedures they are trained in. The comparison came because i have a similar kind of document for hourly employees. They have a checklist and a various quality procedures and operating procedures they are trained in.

what kind of training evidence do you have indicating training of salaried employees in various procedures. Do you have checklist or matrix indicating which employee shall be trained in which all procedures.
I have statements in all procedures saying departments that are responsible for that procedure. For e.g When a procedure on engineering related documents is modified Engineering Manager sign-offs acknowledging the change but it not signed-off by people working under him, in this case do I have to trained them?

please give me some direction,

thanks for you help in advance.

Robin :bonk:

Just shooting from the hip here, but to me the first part of 6.2.2 says it all. "The organization shall determine"... and that's you my friend. If you say that emails are an acceptable document to convey that training was given, that should be enough to satisfy requirements of the standard. Just make sure that anything you use to substantiate that training was provided, conforms to the requirements of recordkeeping as called out in 4.2.4.

Bottom line... you (your organization) determines method of training or other action to satisfy these needs. And not your registrar/auditor.

Amen to Don's post. If you can show that what you do: 1. complies with the standard, 2. complies with your QMS manual/procedures, and 3. is effective, tell the auditor to buzz off.

Regarding training salaried versus hourly employees. What difference does that make? Whoever is performing tasks under your quality management system should be trained. Yes, there might be some employees who fall out, say for example financial/accounting employees. Employee status (salaried or hourly) shouldn't make a difference.

I'm a Quality Manager, I'm salaried, I'm trained (be that as it may.....).

It sounds like you had a training system going with the hourly people, determining what procedures they should be trained to and tracking that. How about applying that to the other people currrently not covered in your training system? Determine what quality procedures and work instructions apply.

How is your customer acceptance of your products? Do you have many customer complaints? Is your customer happy and placing new business with your organization?

If all of these are good, then your auditor is going out of his way to find Bull Hockey ietms. The CB auditors I know have been told to layoff the picky stuff and concentrate on customer performance and satisfaction.