Hi!

Our company is moving operations from one location to another. We are ISO/TS16949 certified. Our next surveillance audit will take place in June.. .however, our operations will close by the end of August. Our TS certificate expires in Sep 2009.

Our TS audit was last done 6-23-06. It was a full recertification audit.

Per ISO/TS rules, surveillance audits should be performed at least once a year. Is there any window period for surveillance audits?

Does anyone know if can we cancel future TS16949 audits without repercussions from our customers? If not, what do you think the consequences will be?

thx,

Try contacting your registrar. There may be ways to get exemptions or at least extensions. They should no the rules that apply.

Hi!

Our company is moving operations from one location to another. We are ISO/TS16949 certified. Our next surveillance audit will take place in June.. .however, our operations will close by the end of August. Our TS certificate expires in Sep 2009.

Our TS audit was last done 6-23-06. It was a full recertification audit.

Per ISO/TS rules, surveillance audits should be performed at least once a year. Is there any window period for surveillance audits?

Does anyone know if can we cancel future TS16949 audits without repercussions from our customers? If not, what do you think the consequences will be?

thx,


The minumum Surveillance days must be performed on an annual basis. There is a window of +/- 30 days, generally. Any deviation beyond this must be approved the registrar, and often requires approval of IAOB as well.

If you cancel all future TS audits, you lose your certification status.

Perhaps ISO 9001 may be more suitable for you, and allows a little more flexibility.

Moving a location is a serious business, especially if your customer(s) require that you have a TS16949 registration. If so, they do expect you to maintain it, you can't just stop and not notify them (well, you can DO it, but they're not going to like it when they find out). If you need to maintain your registration, you're going to have to have that surveillance in June at your current location, AND you should have another surveillance ASAP once you are up and running at your new location. I agree with JRich, talk to your registrar (and also your customer) and keep them in the know.

What criteria is used to determine how many days a facility has to be audited? We are a 2 facility company, one facility has 100 employees, the other has around 30. How does the auditor determine how many days to spend auditing each facility. The facilty with 100 employees they spend 3 days, the othe facilty they spend 2 days.

What criteria is used to determine how many days a facility has to be audited? We are a 2 facility company, one facility has 100 employees, the other has around 30. How does the auditor determine how many days to spend auditing each facility. The facilty with 100 employees they spend 3 days, the othe facilty they spend 2 days.

Well, it's the CB that decides, not the auditor and it would depend on a number of things. Do both facilties fall under the one certificate? Or are they two seperate locations with their own certificates? That might be one reason.

All accredited CB's are supposed to use ISO Guide 62 which contains a table of auditor days which is derived from headcount, scope (design for example) and so forth.

These figures can also be modified based on a number of criteria - like the complexity of the processes and products provided, so there's room to 'give and take' which can also affect the suggested number of days.

If you'd like, if you would pm me the details I can run it through our system at NQA to see what numbers it should be.

The number of employees at one facility is 10. The other facility has around 80. I would pm you but don't know how.

The number of employees at one facility is 10. The other facility has around 80. I would pm you but don't know how.

Click on my name and then, from the drop down list select 'Send a pm to..." and complete the form, (insert a subject!) and send.....

ISO Guide 62 (replaced by ISO 17021) doesn't apply to TS 16949. The TS Rules document has its own table used to calculate the number of days. I've got it on my other laptop though, so I'll have to post the numbers later...

ISO Guide 62 (replaced by ISO 17021) doesn't apply to TS 16949. The TS Rules document has its own table used to calculate the number of days. I've got it on my other laptop though, so I'll have to post the numbers later...

Yup - sorry, I over looked that it was posted in the TS forum! I can still check on the numbers, tho! Thanks, Howste for pointing that out!

The principle still remains, that it's not the call of the individual auditor, tho'.

The number of employees at one facility is 10. The other facility has around 80. I would pm you but don't know how.
Here are some of the ranges for an initial certification audit:

1 – 6 equals 2.0 days
7 – 11 equals 2.5 days
12 – 18 equals 3.0 days
19 – 27 equals 3.5 days
28 – 39 equals 4.0 days
40 – 54 equals 4.5 days
55 – 71 equals 5.0 days
72 – 93 equals 5.5 days
94 – 117 equals 6.0 days
118 – 146 equals 6.5 days

If both sites fall under the same certificate, then the number of days would be calculated based on the total head count for both sites.

80 at site 1 + 10 at site 2 = 90 total employees, or 5.5 auditor days total.

With 2 sites under a corporate certificate, there can be a 20% reduction in days. Also, if the company is not design responsible there can be a 15% reduction in days. The number is rounded up to the nearest half day.

The rules also state, "How the days are distributed between the site(s) and any supporting functions remote or not is the responsibility of the certification body." As Andy said, the CB decides.

The surveillance audit days for the three year cycle is the same as for the initial audit, divided equally between the surveillance audits.

The recertification days are calculated from a separate table, which I can give you information on if you're interested.

Also, if each site has its own certificate, the number of days would be calculated separately. The larger site would have 5.5 days and the smaller would have 2 days.