I have had a non-automotive customer ask me a question I'm not quite sure how to answer.

"If you are ISO/TS16949 certified, what about ISO certification?"

Well I was under the impression that since our TS16949 was structured after the ISO9001:2000 standard, this automatically qualified as being ISO certified.

Could someone PLEASE clarify for me?

I have had a non-automotive customer ask me a question I'm not quite sure how to answer.

"If you are ISO/TS16949 certified, what about ISO certification?"

Well I was under the impression that since our TS16949 was structured after the ISO9001:2000 standard, this automatically qualified as being ISO certified.

Could someone PLEASE clarify for me?

Our registrar acutally issues us a TS 16949 certificate and an ISO certificate. To me, they are one in the same, how can you have TS and not ISO. But, for the non-auto people (and we have one or two customers), they want to see the ISO cert.

I'll leave it to the Cove's registrar contribuutors to explain the rules because I inevitably get it wrong.

My organization supplies both auto and non-auto customers. The auto customers demand and get the whole expensive control plan, PPAP, MSA etc package required by TS. The others don't.
Consequently we maintain an ISO 9001 registration for those who don't want the Full Monty.

If you are registered to ISO/TS 16949 you are COMPLIANT with ISO 9001:2000 since ISO/TS 16949 contains the entire text of ISO 9001. However, you must pay an additional fee to your registrar in order to be registered/certified as compliant to ISO 9001:2000 (this fee covers the cost of submitting the paperwork to yet another oversight board). The certification to ISO 9001 is not "automatic". Since 9001 registrations/rules/registrars are controlled by ANAB (ANSI-ASQ National Accreditation Board in the US) and 16949 registrations/rules/registrars are controlled by the IATF (International Automotive Task Force), the customer recognition of your fancy certificate may not be interchangeable.

Personally, I would accept 16949 registration as covering the intent of requiring 9001 registration and my quality system documentation states this clearly. Your customer may not be as competent and/or open-minded. Some explanation may be in order. If not, cough up the additional ~US500 (YMMV) to your registrar for the 9001 cert.

Remember that the TS certification applies exclusively to the automotive product lines. If you manufacture non-automotive products and you want that "scope" to be certified to ISO 9001, you need to make arrangements with your registrar. That might entail additional time and/or fees.

However, you must pay an additional fee to your registrar in order to be registered/certified as compliant to ISO 9001:2000 (this fee covers the cost of submitting the paperwork to yet another oversight board).
Our registrar did not charge us for this. We maintain AS9100 registration (which, like TS16949, includes ISO9001:2000 in its entirety) for new products and ISO9001:2000 registration for new and remanufactured products. Two certificates with different scopes.

Remember that the TS certification applies exclusively to the automotive product lines. If you manufacture non-automotive products and you want that "scope" to be certified to ISO 9001, you need to make arrangements with your registrar. That might entail additional time and/or fees.Good point, Sidney. Our scope and system is such that we apply ISO 9001:2000 to all products and the additional TS 16949 requirements to products where the customer requires them. I suppose it is possible to segment off product development, purchasing, etc. and only apply the 9001/16949 requirements to the automotive products in your arsenal, but I can't imagine it being worth the trouble.

In my opinion, Icy Mountain nailed the answer to the original question. Of course, Sidney provided additional info that completes the answer to the original question.

Regards,

Dirk

Thanks, DVP.
That might entail additional time and/or fees.I read this again after Dirk's post. "Might entail", Sidney? Which registrar do you work for now? I should post a poll: "Did anyone ever get anything from a registrar without additional time and/or fees(except a quote, of course)?:lmao: Just kidding, Sidney.

I should post a poll: "Did anyone ever get anything from a registrar without additional time and/or fees(except a quote, of course)?Free webinars, technical questions answered, etc...What about the free "advice" a few CB representatives offer here, at the Cove, on a daily basis? :cool:

Sorry, Sidney.:o BTW, I have a really good comeback to your question but I didn't post it so I wouldn't have to apologize again. I am a slow learner but I'm still capable of learning.

Sorry, Sidney.:o BTW, I have a really good comeback to your question but I didn't post it so I wouldn't have to apologize again. I am a slow learner but I'm still capable of learning.No need for apologies. Actually, my previous comment was tongue in cheek. Your comment was appropriate. Most registrars are obsessed with revenue streams and don't give anything away for free. A few of us realize, though, that we have to add some value. Otherwise, the concept is not sustainable in the long run.