Hi Everybody,

A few weeks ago we had our internal auditor training. While the trainer was here she mentioned a few things that we may want to look at improving. One of the things she mentioned was that our vendor evaluations only cover our product vendors. We don't have anything in the procedures for service providers , such as herself. I am looking at the standard in section 7.4.1 and it seems to indicate that this is for product that we are going to use in our manufactured goods, I'm not seeing anything about services that we purchase. My question is, do we need to include services for training, like this, in our vendor evaluations? I could see the possibility that we might need to include the shipping services we buy as these could directly affect our manufactured products but I'm not sure about the other.

Any help would be appreciated.:thanx:

We do an evaluation of each of the services they provide and a yearly evaluation of the cooperation between both companies.

These activities are part of the " control " we have over our outsourced activities ( mentioned in item 4.1 of ISO 9001 )
It is certainly a good thing to evaluate and it can help improving the relation.

Best regards and I hope this helps,

Antoine

I am looking at the standard in section 7.4.1 and it seems to indicate that this is for product that we are going to use in our manufactured goods, I'm not seeing anything about services that we purchase.

Keep in mind that literally wherever you see the word 'product' in the Standard, you need to read it as something like 'product or service as applicable' (which is a bit of a mouthful).

Which means: if you purchase services, outsource them whatever, then yes they are things you purchase, so the requirements of the clause applies.

My question is, do we need to include services for training, like this, in our vendor evaluations?
Probably yes. If they're training people in, say, phone answering technique and they get it wrong, so your people do a really bad job responding to potential customers, wouldn't that have an effect?

I could see the possibility that we might need to include the shipping services we buy as these could directly affect our manufactured products

It doesn't say 'directly affect' your products. It does say something rather like this (in which I've made minor alterations of wording to clarify):

The type and extent of control applied to the supplier and the purchased product or service depends on the effect of what is bought on your subsequent product (or service) realisation or the final product (or service).

In other words, use common sense. If you're buying office copy paper, for example, and you manufacture brake clutches, then this probably doesn't have much effect on your manufactured objects. But if you were getting in, say, some engineering consultancy to help you teach your workshop people to do root cause analysis better... then you betcha you should be evaluating & monitoring those suppliers very carefully.

And given that you're purchasing in the services of someone to train your internal auditors... surely you'd take some care in selecting that someone? Because if the auditors aren't very well trained, then the audits aren't going to be good.... which could means that you're not finding the problems you need to find, let alone addressing them... and wouldn't that have an effect on subsequent 'product realisation' or 'final product'??

Your internal auditor trainer is right & she's given you very good advice.

Hi Everybody,

A few weeks ago we had our internal auditor training. While the trainer was here she mentioned a few things that we may want to look at improving. One of the things she mentioned was that our vendor evaluations only cover our product vendors. We don't have anything in the procedures for service providers :

I agree with the previous post about using common sense with the entire supplier evaluation process. If your quality management system is new to the company, you will typically find that you focus your efforts on suppliers of the materials used to make and ship your products (which can be a service product). As the system matures, and you have the resources available to you, the methods of various evaluation processes changes. For example, the ISO 9001 standard talks about the need for preventive action. Most companies just starting with ISO 9001 have the basics in place to analyze trends -- maybe a pareto chart of customer complaints and some results of satisfaction surveys. Data like this is used to look at opportunities for actions. Over time, the company adds a process like design FMEA to help create a more robust product/service design process. Perhaps they learn to use Design for Six Sigma methods for processes. In other words, companies start with what they can manage, and build on that over time.

For a traditional manufacturer with a system that's been in place for a time, the company may now start to evaluate other types of suppliers that impact the ability to improve the effectiveness of the quality system. Even if your company doesn't evaluate all service providers today, you will start doing more suppiler evaluations over time.

Good luck!

As the system matures, and you have the resources available to you, the methods of various evaluation processes changes...

In other words, companies start with what they can manage, and build on that over time.

Very good point.

Hi Everybody,

..... My question is, do we need to include services for training, like this, in our vendor evaluations? .....

Yes,

If you see the last line of section 3 of the standard ISO 9001:2000, it says:

"Throughout the text of this International Standard, wherever the term 'product' occurs, it can also mean 'service'."