:bigwave: New folks - sorry I haven't been active for a couple of weeks. I tried to reply to SK Tan Malaysia on Process Audits but had computer integration issues. See attached.

I had recently went through the ISO 9001:2000 surveillance audit, the auditor issue an OFI (opportunity for improvement) on clause 8.2.2 as following:-

"System established for internal audit could be improved:
- audit could be planned according to process, not per ISO 9001 elements
- process approach auditing skill was not clearly demonstrated
- audit note taking could be improved "

I am thinking deploy the turtle diagram as use by most ISO/TS16949 certified company. Is it advisable or any other better format can i use?

Thanks.

Mary had given you a reply on the 16th in this thread:
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=1477 page 200, post#1595

NOTE: I moved the post to this thread (see post 23 above) because it was 'lost' is the 'Say Hello' thread. --> Marc

Many also find this thread useful, especially Greg's process mapping powerpoint ppt. presentation found therein.
Training on ISO9001 Process Approach (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?p=183066#post183066)

Thanks for your reply. It does help me to understand what is process approach.

SK Tan

I had recently went through the ISO 9001:2000 surveillance audit, the auditor issue an OFI (opportunity for improvement) on clause 8.2.2 as following:-

"System established for internal audit could be improved:
- audit could be planned according to process, not per ISO 9001 elements
- process approach auditing skill was not clearly demonstrated
- audit note taking could be improved "

I am thinking deploy the turtle diagram as use by most ISO/TS16949 certified company. Is it advisable or any other better format can i use?

Thanks.

From what I understood, your OFI was directed at 8.2.2 and not 4.1 (or did you get a comment there too ?).

Make sure your audit plan is also planned using process approach ex. while auditing Production, you can check besides 7.5.1, check 4.2.3, 4.2.4, 6.3, 6.4, 7.5.3, 7.5.5, 7.6, 8.2.3, 8.2.4... and etc... don´t just stick to 7.5.1, check all interactions (that´s where your process mapping willl come in)

Also see these existing Process Approach (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/search.php?do=process&titleonly=1&query=process+approach) discussion threads.

I had recently went through the ISO 9001:2000 surveillance audit, the auditor issue an OFI (opportunity for improvement) on clause 8.2.2 as following:-

"System established for internal audit could be improved:
- audit could be planned according to process, not per ISO 9001 elements
- process approach auditing skill was not clearly demonstrated
- audit note taking could be improved "

I am thinking deploy the turtle diagram as use by most ISO/TS16949 certified company. Is it advisable or any other better format can i use?

Thanks.

You appear to have three separate issues to address:

Scheduling audits by process is a relatively easy one to resolve. Your QMS should define which processes you should be auditing.

The process approach by your auditors will not simply be solved by using 'turtles'. These can be helpful in planning an audit, but SHOULD NOT be used exclusively. The use of turtles has been somewhat helpful in driving 3rd party auditors (who had been auditing by 'element') towards thinking in terms of a process. (this is also in part, due to organizations who didn't document their processes very well). They are a good tool to do individual auditor planning, before writing checklists etc.

Auditor note taking is something you will have to coach someone on. Once again, if you use a Turtle, it won't help. Let the auditors use any method they feel comfortable with, but coach them to organize their audit style to help them take notes of what they are seeing, (people, jobs, tools, equipment, products, documents etc. etc.) when they audit.

You may wish to review the effectiveness of the original auditor training, if they haven't been doing these things anyway......

Andy

Hi, Winchm,

Thanks for your details information on process approach and example of turtle diagram, it helps me alot to understand the process approach.

SK Tan

http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/138402/755901/1069636/customview.html?func=ll&objId=1069636&objAction=browse&sort=name

Check out the above website for the ISO Support Package on the Process Approach.

http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/138402/138403/3541460/customview.html?func=ll&objId=3541460&objAction=browse&sort=name

Check out this website for all of the Audit Practice Group info including stuff on the Process Approach and just about any other topic you can think of related to auditing ISO 9001.

Regards,

Dirk

:bigwave: New folks - sorry I haven't been active for a couple of weeks. I tried to reply to SK Tan Malaysia on Process Audits but had computer integration issues. See attached.

This is only thing that always gives me problems.
I apprriciate your help. :applause: