A past Quality manager decided that accounting was a key Process that should be audited by the internal audit system. Do any of you audit accounting? If so, what part of TS16949 would you link it to?

In our last surveillance audit, our 3rd party auditor was scheduled to audit accounting and did not. When he was asked by the process owner, he said that he did not know why it was on there, implying that Accounting is not a normal part of the QMS audit.

Your opinions on either would be greatly appreciated.

A past Quality manager decided that accounting was a key Process that should be audited by the internal audit system. Do any of you audit accounting? If so, what part of TS16949 would you link it to?

In our last surveillance audit, our 3rd party auditor was scheduled to audit accounting and did not. When he was asked by the process owner, he said that he did not know why it was on there, implying that Accounting is not a normal part of the QMS audit.

Your opinions on either would be greatly appreciated.

I don´t know much about TS, but I wouldn´t think that accounting would/should be a part of the system, however...... accounts receivable does have interaction with the customer, hence it could be considered a COP ?

Accounting might also be responsible for generating Cost of Quality numbers, or other figures related to quality objectives.

However, the Finance function would usually (or at least minimally) be audited as part of ISO 9001, ISO/TS 16949, or any other QMS standard. There are many management systems in any organization (quality, finance, safety, environmental, ...) and auditors must be careful to not stray outside the boundaries of what their audit scope is.

I think I agree with you. I am thinking that it should be removed as a separate aspect and included in the others as it applies. Does this make sense?

I think accounting should only be audited as part of TS16949 if they are causing customer complaints on inaccurate invoicing, etc. They have not been audited for TS here.

Otherwise accounting gets audited by others, CPA firms, and SOX, who do a much more detailed, meaningful audit than with TS.

This thread is somewhat connected to the one I started last year: Should the billing process be part of ISO 9001:2008? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=15898&highlight=billing) The basic premise is that billing impacts customer satisfaction. We require outgoing PO's to be reviewed for accuracy before being issued to suppliers? The standard could have a similar type of requirement for invoices, bills, etc...

Please keep in mind that billing is just a small subset of accounting.

I think I agree with you. I am thinking that it should be removed as a separate aspect and included in the others as it applies. Does this make sense?

One way I use to help organizations look at this is to create a matrix. Across the top are departments, down the left are elements of the standard. Put an X where the intersection shows who is the owner of that element, and put an O where the department has some involvement. The conversation created by having them do this is very worthwhile. See example in the attachment (it's for 9001 not TS, but you can add level of granularity you want for each axis).