We are receiving a minor nonconformance because the new pin gages that we received state that they are "found to conform to Class ZZ Grade per American National Standard Specification-ASME B89.1.5-1998". The auditor says that this is more of a guideline and not a standard. He wants something traceable to NIST. I believe that he is wrong but I don't have a good argument.

Can anyone send me evidence that this is a "Standard"?

MsHeeler

From the ASME web site here

http://catalog.asme.org/Codes/PrintBook/B8915_1998_Measurement_Plain.cfm

This Standard is intended to establish uniform practices for the measurement of master discs or cylindrical plug gages to a given tolerance using vertical or horizontal comparators and laser instruments. The Standard includes requirements for geometric qualities of master discs or cylindrical plugs, the important characteristics of the comparison equipment, environmental conditions, and the means to assure that measurements are made with an acceptable level of accuracy. This Standard does not address thread or gear measuring wires.

This standard is for measurments and classification of pins, not a calibration standard.

Are you kidding me? How can they say "American National Standard"?

MsHeeler

Are you kidding me?

About what?

How can they say "American National Standard"?

I might be able to answer this question if I knew who "they" are.


He wants something traceable to NIST.

I believe what you have is a minor nonconformance for using equipment that has not been "calibrated" against an known standard (not to be confused with the standards or specifications issued by ASME). In the United States, most calibration done on mechanical measuring equipment, such as micrometer, gage blocks and gage pins should be traceable to NIST (National Institue of Standards and Technology).

In other words - you have physical "standards", such as a master gage block and soft "standards", as in documents issued by organizations like ASME.

I hope this helps a bit.

Are you kidding me? How can they say "American National Standard"?

MsHeeler

Generally, the phrase "American National Standard" is reserved for ANSI documents, as may be inferred from the the fact that ANSI stands for American National Standards Institute. ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers) is another publisher of standards, but theirs are not considered "American National Standards." ASME is more akin to ASQ.

That said, I bet that your pins were calibrated by the manufacturer, and that the calibration is NIST-traceable, but you might have to pay extra for a so-called "long" calibration certificate. If that's not the case, you will need to have them calibrated by an outside source, or calibrate them yourself if you have the necessary equipment and traceable standards.

The COC from MSC Direct states that the pin gages are conforming to
ASME B89.1.5-1998 when I called MSC they said that the COC only shows that the gages were the part that we ordered. It is not any sort of certification.

The calibration service that supplied them to us will have to calibrate them for free.

ASME B89.1.5-1998 is a guide for certifying pin gages not a standard.

Thanks for the help
MsHeeler

ASME B89.1.5-1998 is a guide for certifying pin gages not a standard.


You might want to look again at the quote in Carols first response above, which begins, "This standard..."

A "standard" is nothing more than something that two or more parties agree to use as guidance or requirements in performing a task or process.

You might want to look again at the quote in Carols first response above, which begins, "This standard..."

A "standard" is nothing more than something that two or more parties agree to use as guidance or requirements in performing a task or process.

Ok thank you I got that. :bonk:

I was just stating that I got the same information from ASME directly. I was also pointing out that if you get a "short form cert" from MSC Direct, it is useless.

Did I really sound that stupid? :mybad:

MsHeeler

I was just stating that I got the same information from ASME directly. I was also pointing out that if you get a "short form cert" from MSC Direct, it is useless.


Just a quick question - did you ask for a certificate of calibration at the time you ordered them? FWIW - you need to ask for this - it is not automatically sent.