Hallo,

I have disscussion with my coworker about media: electricity, water etc. in manufacturing process. In my opinion they are just resources for process realization, like machines, operators, raw materials etc. In his opinion this is input to manufacturing process as output from purchasing. If we agree that media are input, then for each process this must be an input, but not only media! There is no process which doesn't need media. What do you think about it?

You are both right, but perhaps it might help your understanding if you look into the IDEF0 model of process mapping.

Using IDEF0 something is only an 'input' if it is transformed by the process into an 'output' and from a quality point of view the output we are interested mostly in is the product - so if you use water in your product (e.g. you manufacture soft drinks) then it is an 'input', but if it is simply used by your process and is not part of the product output (e.g. for cooling a motor on a machine that produces a part) then it is a 'resource'.

What IDEF0 does is split the generic 'inputs' tag into 3, with 'inputs' being what is trasformed into the product, 'resources' being what is used by the process to enable the transformation of inputs to outputs, and 'controls' being those things which define how the process should be conducted (procedures, policies, etc).

I find this method sometimes helpful but admittedly does add complexity to your process maps.

I agree with M Greenaway's post. Unless your processes transform the water/electricity etc. into product, then they aren't inputs......

I think so. Thank you very much for help.

interesting question. the answer depends certainly on your specific process and how electricity, water, etc. are used in the process and what you DO with things that are classified as inputs or resources.

My take is that things like wrok instructions and computers are resources. they enable the operator to perform the work.

if electricity and water are required by the process to make the product then they are indeed inputs. think about wether or not their 'quality' matters. if you are supposed to have 5 volts and you get 100 what happens? what happens if the water is shut off or is dirty?

if electricity and water are required by the process to make the product then they are indeed inputs. think about wether or not their 'quality' matters. if you are supposed to have 5 volts and you get 100 what happens? what happens if the water is shut off or is dirty?

One has to consider the normative reference for the ISO 9001 requirements, which is ISO 9000. It clearly states that a process is one which transforms inputs into outputs. If you need electricity/water to make the process operate, what's the product?????? The electricity/water is assisting in the transformation of the inputs into a product.

The normative reference is there to help prevent this type of mis-understanding.

One has to consider the normative reference for the ISO 9001 requirements, which is ISO 9000. It clearly states that a process is one which transforms inputs into outputs. If you need electricity/water to make the process operate, what's the product?????? The electricity/water is assisting in the transformation of the inputs into a product.

The normative reference is there to help prevent this type of mis-understanding.

true. as far as ISO goes - but can we not go farther? should we not control the process inputs as well as the direct inputs that go into the product? and what about the indirect materials that are so vital to creating the product? (an example woudl be photoresist that creates the patterns on a semiconductor wafer but is later removed...if it's contaminated we get reliability failures, if its' nto efective we get shorts or opens or other functional and reliabitlity issues...)

We specify parameters such as temperature pressure duration voltage current etc. that are absolutely critical to controlling the quality of the resutling product but none of these things goes INTO the product...are they still not "inputs"; should they not be controlled...certainly even ISO 9000 didn't intend for us to ignore these as "inputs" - certainly no auditor I've ever run into - even the bad ones.

I guess I'm missing the point? why do we identify inputs???

[QUOTE=Bev D;197488]

if electricity and water are required by the process to make the product then they are indeed inputs. QUOTE]

Except some hand made production almost all manufacturing processes require electricity to produce a product. All machines are power supplied. That's a problem.

true. as far as ISO goes - but can we not go farther? should we not control the process inputs as well as the direct inputs that go into the product? and what about the indirect materials that are so vital to creating the product? (an example woudl be photoresist that creates the patterns on a semiconductor wafer but is later removed...if it's contaminated we get reliability failures, if its' nto efective we get shorts or opens or other functional and reliabitlity issues...)

We specify parameters such as temperature pressure duration voltage current etc. that are absolutely critical to controlling the quality of the resutling product but none of these things goes INTO the product...are they still not "inputs"; should they not be controlled...certainly even ISO 9000 didn't intend for us to ignore these as "inputs" - certainly no auditor I've ever run into - even the bad ones.

I guess I'm missing the point? why do we identify inputs???

I think Andy and Bev are both right, but I tend to agree with Bev's view with regard to process control. Everything necessary to make the product is input to the process, and everything needs to be controlled such that the product meets design intent. Process control is more than measuring parts and putting dots on charts--it's the practice of understanding all of the variables that contribute to conforming product, and understanding the natural variation in them.

This is another of those cases where it's possible to do some minimum amount of work in order to satisfy the standard, or put the standard aside and do what's necessary to control processes. In the latter view, the "media" the OP refers to are most certainly inputs.

We specify parameters such as temperature pressure duration voltage current etc. that are absolutely critical to controlling the quality of the resutling product but none of these things goes INTO the product...are they still not "inputs"; should they not be controlled...certainly even ISO 9000 didn't intend for us to ignore these as "inputs" - certainly no auditor I've ever run into - even the bad ones.

I guess I'm missing the point? why do we identify inputs???

Yes, you are correct! :agree1:

The OP was about what is an input etc., not whether process controls are necessary.

I agree process controls are required, however, the examples in the OP are not, in my experience, inputs to the process.

Thank you all. I agree with Andy. In my opinion power supply&water are a part of infrastructure supporting production. For me inputs to production process are raw materials, product drawings etc., but people, machines and all what is "a part" of building and those are resources for process realization.

Yes the discussion has turned from what is considered an 'input' to a process, to what do we need to control in our process. Bev is right that water or electricity may well need to be closely controlled in our process depending on what they are, but this is not the question originally posed.

Yes the discussion has turned from what is considered an 'input' to a process, to what do we need to control in our process. Bev is right that water or electricity may well need to be closely controlled in our process depending on what they are, but this is not the question originally posed.

I agree, whoever said resources should not be controlled? As M Greenaway has said, this was not the original question and it was kind of going off saying "everything that needs control should be considered an input", which in my view is not the case.

I think it is good to differentiate between inputs and resources, because there are instances when you may actually make it one of your objectives to reduce useage of a resource, whilst maintaining product quality. Obviously if you make a soft drink, it would be difficult to reduce the useage of water that actually forms part of the drink (unless you make a decide to make less product), but you could reduce the water used to cool your machines and even go as far as to say reduce the water used to flush the toilets the operators use!

In my head I think the definitions identified by M Greenaway in an earlier post are useful and make sense to me.