Heyyy folks! the deaprtment my company is going for certification does project based work. the department provides services regarding construction and renovation of premises. They develop the designs and then use a subcontractor to do the actual renovation. In this case can section design and development be excluded.

No, because you said the magic words....they develop the design.

Even I feel confident in answering here...exactly what Randy said ;)

Even I feel confident in answering here...exactly what Randy said ;)

:topic:You will get yourself ito trouble agreeing with me.

LOL yes, I had gotten that impression ;)

hmmmm thanks for the response guys. Actually the department is divided into sections. Each section has different nature of work. One of the section is coming under design and development so should I write in the exclusion part that "All sections of Admin department except Renovation section do not design or develop a product hence 7.3 is excluded from all sections except Renovation section!!!
Lollzzzzz I sound like loser!!
Pardon me if im making a mistake. Thanks in advance guys!!

Randy

Is it that simple. The key thing about Design is who is it done for ie is it part of the product/service for your customer. Example: If a customer says to builder, design andd build me a house. Then the design needs customer approval and the design service will be charged to the customer. If on the other hand a property developer buys lands, designs houses and then sells the houses to customers design could be excluded.

hmmmm thanks for the response guys. Actually the department is divided into sections. Each section has different nature of work. One of the section is coming under design and development so should I write in the exclusion part that "All sections of Admin department except Renovation section do not design or develop a product hence 7.3 is excluded from all sections except Renovation section!!!
Lollzzzzz I sound like loser!!
Pardon me if im making a mistake. Thanks in advance guys!!

No, you're over-complicating things. I'm not quite sure what you mean about the 'exclusion section', but if you aren't excluding any clauses, then you don't need to write anything. The essential thing is: you can't exclude the requirements of this particular section, so in building the system, you (& the people functioning in it) need to know that it applies, and how and where you meet the various requirements in this section.

OK, you outsource the design. Fine. But in that case, you'll need to pay a *lot* of attention to the 'Purchasing' section of ISO 9001, because your supplier is critical here. You'll want to ensure that you can show you've taken care in selecting & monitoring & evaluating/re-evaluating your supplier/s of design. Say it's an architect or a drawing firm: OK, theirs is the professional responsibility. But you'll want to ensure you get clear deliverables from them, manage changes if they occur, ensure everyone's working to the current version of the drawings, etc etc.

hi all,
I am confused between verification and validation of design. I went through this link http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7303 which is very similiar to the services that our renovation department delivers. For verification I have included verifications through progress reports, Measurement Sheets etc. But how can the service be validated im confused. Hmmm the renovated space is given to the customer and if they identify any changes, contractor has to do the work in a specified period. And also the design is sent to the customer for acceptance. Does this checking of design and actual space by the customer can be included in the validation part. Hope I am clear. thanks in advance.

hi all,
I am confused between verification and validation of design. I went through this link http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7303 which is very similiar to the services that our renovation department delivers. For verification I have included verifications through progress reports, Measurement Sheets etc. But how can the service be validated im confused. Hmmm the renovated space is given to the customer and if they identify any changes, contractor has to do the work in a specified period. And also the design is sent to the customer for acceptance. Does this checking of design and actual space by the customer can be included in the validation part. Hope I am clear. thanks in advance.


In simple terms, verification is usually applied to the paper design. It is double-checking to make sure everything has been addressed and everything works and fits. Validation is generally applied to the actual product. Do the appliances work, keys are matched, etc. The building inspector and the the "punch list" could be considered validation in your field. The customer acceptance should be after your validation, and should not be confused as such.

No, you're over-complicating things. I'm not quite sure what you mean about the 'exclusion section', but if you aren't excluding any clauses, then you don't need to write anything. The essential thing is: you can't exclude the requirements of this particular section, so in building the system, you (& the people functioning in it) need to know that it applies, and how and where you meet the various requirements in this section.

OK, you outsource the design. Fine. But in that case, you'll need to pay a *lot* of attention to the 'Purchasing' section of ISO 9001, because your supplier is critical here. You'll want to ensure that you can show you've taken care in selecting & monitoring & evaluating/re-evaluating your supplier/s of design. Say it's an architect or a drawing firm: OK, theirs is the professional responsibility. But you'll want to ensure you get clear deliverables from them, manage changes if they occur, ensure everyone's working to the current version of the drawings, etc etc.


The end of Clause 4.1 also adds particular requirements for outsourcing.

...If on the other hand a property developer buys lands, designs houses and then sells the houses to customers design could be excluded.


If the developer designs the houses, then design should definitely not be excluded.