I am a Quality Manager for an ISO 9001 / AS9100 Registered Spin Testing company. I was hired just over a year ago to develop a Quality System and get the company registered. I've also been labeled as the Import/Export Compliance Manager, Safety Officer, and Inventory Control Manager.

I have recently requested a salary review, due to the addtion of the 3 extra roles I'm filling. I felt with the time needed to fulfill the responsibilities and the responsibilities themselves I deserved a little compensation considering I'm making less then the low salary range for a Quality Manager in my area.

The response I have received so far is that we would have to sit down and define my plate, and work together to prioritize what's on it.

The gist of my explanation was I should be putting in 40+ hours a week just in the Quality Role, and in many cases I should be putting in close to 40 hours in the Import/Export Control role. I'm willing to put in some extra time but where do you draw the line and it just needs to be made worth it.

The other thing the the President said was that it was his assumption that critical company processes tie directly to quality, and that falls within the "quality" definition?

By critical company processes he means all of the roles I described above, that I am supposed to be filling as one person.

I guess my question is has anyone else ever run into this type of situation. I understand that people take on some extra duties (wearing extra hats if you will) but would Import/Export Compliance fall under a Quality Managers responsibilities or "definition" as my boss has put it.

Any help would be great!!

Well 93ramvert,

I see from yor profile that your company is fewer than 30 employees.

That affects my answer because I have also served as quality and safety officer for a similarly sized company.

However, there were some differences. At the time my employer was not registered to anything. With registration comes a good sized set of duties, just as a QA Mgr.

What I want to know is, who does your audits? If it's you, I think it's unreasonable (I managed to write that with a straight face) to assume dual roles of Safety Manager without sacrificing needed depth to do both properly.

To know what is needed for the safety officer's role, data on deficiencies is needed so you can list what needs to be accomplished beyond the typical manage MSDS files and conduct periodic training, manage injury reports and the like. I also do not know what qualifies you to be the safety officer there. Although it's true that having a well-run safety program contributes to quality of product and service (my opinion--there was a thread on that subject) and it's also thrue that many aspects of both systems are similar, the needed technical knowledge does NOT overlap.

Your top management appears to not understand this, or else you have not managed to make them understand, given the qualifiecations you do have, that there are too many duties for one person to adequately manage both programs in a 40 hour week. I won't even approach the subject of inventory control management because I do not have experience with that role.

I certainly agree that compensation should take into consideration the multiplied responsibilities (I've been told a safety manager can be held up to 15% liable in a case of wrongful injury or death). The best thing I can suggest is to lay out the things you'd be doing in these roles, the approximate amount of time needed to do them, and add it up for presentation.

That might not be good enough. My experience with these matters is that a small organization's management wants the appearance of having these programs, but may not empower their managers or provide needed resources to see them properly, and legally, implemented. This could be your ultimate challenge. It was mine.

Good luck with this.

The other thing the the President said was that it was his assumption that critical company processes tie directly to quality, and that falls within the "quality" definition?

Any help would be great!!

It appears that maybe the President of the Company needs to better understand, that the Business/Quality System is the responsibility of everyone, and Quality has to be built into the product or service provided.

As for the other questions: I would suggest that you provide time spent at each position/responsibility, provide some type of documentation of the salary issue, and explain in simple terms why you feel that these added responsibilities go beyond what you have been hired to perform.

Remember, that in today's business perspective, many of us wear more hats than our title/responsibilities reflect.

I can recall, a previous company I worked for, had me also involved in Accounts Receivables, Contract Review, Program Management, and Quality Management.

The Accounts Receivable fell under my responsibilities, because it was focused on payment from the Government. Being that I was a previous Government Civil Service person, "I talked the talk and walked the walk." I got the results.

My opinion, based on personal observation, is that the smart play is to accept the added responsibility, BUT negotiate for added pay and access to [at the minimum, part-time] staff to perform some of the grunt work involved.

On another note - The response I have received so far is that we would have to sit down and define my plate, and work together to prioritize what's on it. Prioritizing tasks is part of the job for a real manager - don't avoid it. The gist of my explanation was I should be putting in 40+ hours a week just in the Quality Role, and in many cases I should be putting in close to 40 hours in the Import/Export Control role. I'm willing to put in some extra time but where do you draw the line and it just needs to be made worth it.This should be the basis for "spin" that much of the job involves "grunt work" - hence the need for even a part-time assistant. It is probably better to focus on EFFECTIVENESS of your designs for accomplishing the necessary tasks of your position (including the proposed addition of compliance) and how effective you would be in planning and managing the work of an assistant. It's almost never smart to focus on the number of hours it takes YOU, yourself, to accomplish a task, thereby avoiding speculation someone else can do it more efficiently. The other thing the President said was that it was his assumption that critical company processes tie directly to quality, and that falls within the "quality" definition?Yep! I agree with him - the quality manager should have his fingers in a lot of pies, the basis for being able to imbue the entire organization with Quality principles!

I am a Quality Manager for an ISO 9001 / AS9100 Registered Spin Testing company. I was hired just over a year ago to develop a Quality System and get the company registered. I've also been labeled as the Import/Export Compliance Manager, Safety Officer, and Inventory Control Manager.

I have recently requested a salary review, due to the addtion of the 3 extra roles I'm filling. I felt with the time needed to fulfill the responsibilities and the responsibilities themselves I deserved a little compensation considering I'm making less then the low salary range for a Quality Manager in my area.

The response I have received so far is that we would have to sit down and define my plate, and work together to prioritize what's on it.

The gist of my explanation was I should be putting in 40+ hours a week just in the Quality Role, and in many cases I should be putting in close to 40 hours in the Import/Export Control role. I'm willing to put in some extra time but where do you draw the line and it just needs to be made worth it.

The other thing the the President said was that it was his assumption that critical company processes tie directly to quality, and that falls within the "quality" definition?

By critical company processes he means all of the roles I described above, that I am supposed to be filling as one person.

I guess my question is has anyone else ever run into this type of situation. I understand that people take on some extra duties (wearing extra hats if you will) but would Import/Export Compliance fall under a Quality Managers responsibilities or "definition" as my boss has put it.

Any help would be great!!

What exactly is the "Compliance" part of the import/export job? Is it a fancy way to say Manager? If yes, then I wouldn´t label it as a responsibility of a quality manager... could be easier linked to a Sales Manager...

In regards to Safety officer, a little easier to link to Quality Manager if you want an integrated system (9k and 18k)...

On another note - Yep! I agree with him - the quality manager should have his fingers in a lot of pies, the basis for being able to imbue the entire organization with Quality principles!

Wes, I usually don't disagree with you on your comments and maybe I just need some clarification on your point.

Why should the Quality manager be responsible for all of the processes that have been determined "critical" to the organization?

I agree, however, that the Quality Manager should drive Quality Principles, but doesn't the responsibility fall under the owner of the processes, not just one person?

What exactly is the "Compliance" part of the import/export job? Is it a fancy way to say Manager? If yes, then I wouldn´t label it as a responsibility of a quality manager... could be easier linked to a Sales Manager...

In regards to Safety officer, a little easier to link to Quality Manager if you want an integrated system (9k and 18k)...


Yes it means Manager, but I'm not just the Manager I'm the grunt as Wes has put it. So I'm not only verifing what we are doing is correct, I'm doing! I'm applying for the Import/Export Licenses, filling out Proforma Invoices, doing the background check on the customer and the shipments they are sending to identify if it's ITAR controlled etc.

Yep! I agree with him - the quality manager should have his fingers in a lot of pies, the basis for being able to imbue the entire organization with Quality principles!

I guess I agree that I should have a hand in all the pies, but should I be the manager of all those pies?

Wes, I usually don't disagree with you on your comments and maybe I just need some clarification on your point.

Why should the Quality manager be responsible for all of the processes that have been determined "critical" to the organization?

I agree, however, that the Quality Manager should drive Quality Principles, but doesn't the responsibility fall under the owner of the processes, not just one person?This question is one of "perspective" - "responsibility for" does not equate with "performing." CEOs are responsible for ALL the functions in their organization, down to seeing the toilets get cleaned. Being able to take part in planning and strategy of a function does not mean one actually performs ALL the grunt work involved in the task. There is a difference between working hard and and working smart. The smart manager takes on responsibility, not grunt work!

This question is one of "perspective" - "responsibility for" does not equate with "performing." CEOs are responsible for ALL the functions in their organization, down to seeing the toilets get cleaned. Being able to take part in planning and strategy of a function does not mean one actually performs ALL the grunt work involved in the task. There is a difference between working hard and and working smart. The smart manager takes on responsibility, not grunt work!

Thanks for the clarification. :thanx:

I can now fully understand the comment.

This question is one of "perspective" - "responsibility for" does not equate with "performing." CEOs are responsible for ALL the functions in their organization, down to seeing the toilets get cleaned. Being able to take part in planning and strategy of a function does not mean one actually performs ALL the grunt work involved in the task. There is a difference between working hard and and working smart. The smart manager takes on responsibility, not grunt work!

I totally agree, but as has been brought up earlier in the discussion, the company is less then 30, actually currently less then 20. So as far as grunts we don't have many.

Unfortunately I don't have the choice to be the "Smart Manager" because we can't just go and hire a grunt worker for a sub system of a company. Were short in areas of production and we fight for that.

I have recently requested a salary review, due to the addtion of the 3 extra roles I'm filling. I felt with the time needed to fulfill the responsibilities and the responsibilities themselves I deserved a little compensation considering I'm making less then the low salary range for a Quality Manager in my area.

The response I have received so far is that we would have to sit down and define my plate, and work together to prioritize what's on it.

The gist of my explanation was I should be putting in 40+ hours a week just in the Quality Role, and in many cases I should be putting in close to 40 hours in the Import/Export Control role. I'm willing to put in some extra time but where do you draw the line and it just needs to be made worth it.



Have they recognized your contributions and efforts formally?
Have they supported you?

I have a feeling that the company takes you for granted and you are using the renumeration issue to raise awareness for your contributions....

If this is the case:
1- Don't wait for others to recognize you. Recognition from your superior should be the icing and not the cake.
2- If you are unhappy about the work situation, find another job.

Good Luck!

I totally agree, but as has been brought up earlier in the discussion, the company is less then 30, actually currently less then 20. So as far as grunts we don't have many.

Unfortunately I don't have the choice to be the "Smart Manager" because we can't just go and hire a grunt worker for a sub system of a company. Were short in areas of production and we fight for that.Ok! So now comes the part about "working smarter."

When I first entered the work force more than forty years ago, a manufacturing company of 100 people used to have ten of those people performing office tasks of filing, typing, answering phones, etc. Today, a company producing the same amount of product (much more dollars, of course) might have a total of 20 employees with only two of those employees tending to "office chores" - the difference being the efficiency of the machines and processes they use.

Many of the grunt work processes involved in preparing documentation can be automated, usually at far less cost than hiring staff to do it. Companies have growth, but often don't make allowance for capital expenditures to accommodate the growth. The boss is right - prioritize and strategize! Make sure you are part of it and also make sure you look at the big picture for the entire organization, not just the narrow tasks you now see, but at an ideal picture of an optimum operation. This is part of "continual improvement." An organization that tries to stay static is really falling behind.

Have they recognized your contributions and efforts formally?
Have they supported you?

I have a feeling that the company takes you for granted and you are using the renumeration issue to raise awareness for your contributions....

If this is the case:
1- Don't wait for others to recognize you. Recognition from your superior should be the icing and not the cake.
2- If you are unhappy about the work situation, find another job.

Good Luck!


I guess I'm lost on you. I don't understand #1

As for #2 I'm not unhappy, I'm certainly willing to take on responsibilities, but I do feel I should get some compensation for taking on extra. Like I said I'm not even making min. salary range in my area for a Quality Manager. (I know I took the job). I like the company, I like the people, I enjoy a challenge. It benefits me in the end (knowledge wise). But if I put in 45 hours regularly for my Quality role then I need to average 15 hours a week for Import/Export, then add in inventory and safety, I think I deserve compensation.

:2cents:

Your QMS is comprised of a number of processes. You oversee the QMS, but are only the "owner" of a couple of them. If you have not already, determine who the process owners are and then hold them accountable for their own respective grunt work.

Just thinking out load...but another way to make the case for your prez would be to put in the time to deliver on what's expected of you. Now you would be working 12 hour days and weekends and you could make a case for overtime $ and/or make him feel he is beating you to the ground. But...if the ship is staying afloat w/ regular hours...then maybe the prez is right.

:2cents:

Your QMS is comprised of a number of processes. You oversee the QMS, but are only the "owner" of a couple of them. If you have not already, determine who the process owners are and then hold them accountable for their own respective grunt work.

Just thinking out load...but another way to make the case for your prez would be to put in the time to deliver on what's expected of you. Now you would be working 12 hour days and weekends and you could make a case for overtime $ and/or make him feel he is beating you to the ground. But...if the ship is staying afloat w/ regular hours...then maybe the prez is right.

No the ship is not staying afloat. To run a good system, would you not agree you would have to put in around 40 hours a week. Now I'm not just reviewing and auditing. I'm actually doing contract reviews, drawing approvals, operations traveler review and sign-offs, COC's, Vendor Audits, vendor evals, ECR'S, DCR'S, third party audits, customer audits, training and I can go on as most of you know. I may have the title of Manager, but I am the grunt as I have no one under me to delagate to. Now add in tracking inventory, going to inventory when someone needs a part to unlock the cage, keeping up with stock levels etc., Believe me I can go on and on with the other two positions. So I'm certainly not keeping up. I'm putting hot fires out as the arise. I'm being reactive not proactive. To add to this I'm also writing op-sheets when I'm requested to. It took me almost a year to have a shipper/receiver hired, to ensure that the process would be followed properly.

The thing for me is I do my 45 at this point. They have loaded more and more on top of me without compensation, so I get what I can done in those 45 hours. If I stay longer they'll certainly load more on, like loading and unloading trucks, which I have done, when here into the evening hours because I was here. The point is I'm only 1 person, I'm willing to take on responsiblities, but make it worth it for me.

I totally agree, but as has been brought up earlier in the discussion, the company is less then 30, actually currently less then 20. So as far as grunts we don't have many.

Unfortunately I don't have the choice to be the "Smart Manager" because we can't just go and hire a grunt worker for a sub system of a company. Were short in areas of production and we fight for that.

There's been some good advice given so far, and I think Wes is on the right track. In a small company, almost anyone who's got the title of manager is going to have to wear more than one hat, and rather than focusing on what you can't do, you need to emphasize what you can do. It does seem like a sit-down is in order, because the more tasks you do well, the more you're likely to be given to do. Rather than complaining about the extra workload, talk with the Big Guy about how you can prioritize things. Find out what he thinks is most important, and in your discussion, it's likely that he'll realize himself that you're spread too thin. Let it be his idea to relieve some of the burden.

I've told the story here before about being in a similar situation--albeit in a somewhat larger company--where I was continually being given additional responsibilities (and accountabilities). It got to the point where I had a choice of doing four or five things well, or doing ten things half-arsed. I spoke to my boss about it (who was also Dilbert's boss) and he sent me to a time-management class, apparently in the belief that my newfound knowledge would permit me to defy the laws of physics. He didn't want to be bothered with working out a rational plan, and since he was a big MBO guy, and my list of objectives kept getting longer, I soon found myself in an untenable position. Give your boss a chance to practice leadership and help you to sort things out, but if he's as oblivious as mine was, you might need to seek greener pastures.

That's a bummer. You will get advice/opinions from this forum, but only you know if the prez will give in. Remember, life is short.

Is the prez the owner? If so, bail.:2cents:

Yes it means Manager, but I'm not just the Manager I'm the grunt as Wes has put it. So I'm not only verifing what we are doing is correct, I'm doing! I'm applying for the Import/Export Licenses, filling out Proforma Invoices, doing the background check on the customer and the shipments they are sending to identify if it's ITAR controlled etc.

It appears you may have already crossed the ITAR bridge, I have just been assigned the task and it is so far from my field of expertise that I need a hand if yo0u are willing.
:thanx:

It appears you may have already crossed the ITAR bridge, I have just been assigned the task and it is so far from my field of expertise that I need a hand if yo0u are willing.
:thanx:

I can try to help, I'm still not 100%, what do you have?

starting from below scratch at this point. :agree1: