Is it fair to say that the Process Failure Mode on the PFMEA is the Control Characteristic on the Control Plan?

If so does every process failure need to be addressed in the control plan?


Lastly does anyone have an excel form that would automatically tranfer PFMEA information over to the Control Plan to begin that process?


Thanks in advance,

jakes

Is it fair to say that the Process Failure Mode on the PFMEA is the Control Characteristic on the Control Plan?

If so does every process failure need to be addressed in the control plan?


Lastly does anyone have an excel form that would automatically tranfer PFMEA information over to the Control Plan to begin that process?


Thanks in advance,

jakes

I don't have a template for you. I know that there are commercial packages that will do it, but they tend to be a little expensive.

As for the general strategy of linking the PCP to the PFMEA, the latter should be used to help determine what appears on the control plan, and the necessary controls. It's not necessary to transfer all of the operations shown on the PFMEA document to the control plan, as it may have been determined during the PFMEA process that some operations don't present risk sufficient to require continuous control. What's listed as a failure mode on the PFMEA depends on how you construct it. I like to see process failures identified as failure modes, rather than part defects (defects are the effects of process failures). The goal, after all, is to control the process.

The process/product characteristic columns on the PCP form should be used to describe what's being controlled. For example, if you're using process failures as failure modes, you would make an entry in the process characteristics column such as, "Dwell time," then give the limits (the tolerance) in the tolerance column ("30 seconds, +/- 2 seconds," e.g.). In the part characteristic column, you would describe the part characteristic(s) that might be affected by dwell time, and list the necessary controls.

So i that case would you say that each function must be listed on the Control Plan - then on the Control Plan identify the controls for that function?

So i that case would you say that each function must be listed on the Control Plan - then on the Control Plan identify the controls for that function?

From my previous post:It's not necessary to transfer all of the operations shown on the PFMEA document to the control plan, as it may have been determined during the PFMEA process that some operations don't present risk sufficient to require continuous control.
(emphasis added)

The controls identified on the PFMEA are what are recorded in the control plan.

The controls identified on the PFMEA are what are recorded in the control plan.

Actually, it's the other way around. The PFMEA asks for current process controls, which assumes that there is an identical or substantially similar process from which the current controls may be cited. So you're transferring the current controls from an existing control plan to a PFMEA document. In the case of a novel or unique process, there would be no existing controls to cite on the PFMEA document.

My experience about linking these documents is that you need to assure that special characteristic listed in PFMEA are all adressed as part of your PCP. I think that there is no necessary to listing every item from PFMEA to PCP, if you think that in PFMEA you will start an exhaustive analysis of your process and you will end dismissing some failure modes and giving a close follow and action plan to anothers according to your RPN

Actually, it's the other way around. The PFMEA asks for current process controls, which assumes that there is an identical or substantially similar process from which the current controls may be cited. So you're transferring the current controls from an existing control plan to a PFMEA document. In the case of a novel or unique process, there would be no existing controls to cite on the PFMEA document.

Not necessarily. If your new process was similar to an existing process, you may have existing controls that will carry over to the new process, and into the control plan.

In addition, if no existing controls exist, and you need controls based on the RPN, you should have developed these controls as part of Recommended Actions to lower the Detection Rating. Therefore, the new controls should also carry over to the Control Plan.

Not necessarily. If your new process was similar to an existing process, you may have existing controls that will carry over to the new process, and into the control plan.

I think I said that. The PFMEA asks for current process controls, which assumes that there is an identical or substantially similar process from which the current controls may be cited.

In addition, if no existing controls exist, and you need controls based on the RPN, you should have developed these controls as part of Recommended Actions to lower the Detection Rating. Therefore, the new controls should also carry over to the Control Plan.

How can something that doesn't exist be a current process control? :confused: I agree that new process controls should be considered as "Recommended Actions," and in such a case the proposed controls should form a part of a prototype or pre-launch control plan. They don't actually become current process controls until the control plan reaches the production stage, at which point they may be cited in other PFMEAs as such. But if there are no current process controls, there are no current process controls. The appropriate entry in such a case is "none."

Is it fair to say that the Process Failure Mode on the PFMEA is the Control Characteristic on the Control Plan?

If so does every process failure need to be addressed in the control plan?

Lastly does anyone have an excel form that would automatically tranfer PFMEA information over to the Control Plan to begin that process?


I always (for manufacturing processes) copy the "Process Function/ Requirements" column from PFMEA and paste it as it is in the "Process Name/ Operation Description" of the Control Plan.
Of course all process failures (which are significant enough to require a control to be established to prevent and/or detect its occurrence) shall be present in the control plan!

Is it fair to say that the Process Failure Mode on the PFMEA is the Control Characteristic on the Control Plan?

If so does every process failure need to be addressed in the control plan?


Lastly does anyone have an excel form that would automatically tranfer PFMEA information over to the Control Plan to begin that process?


Thanks in advance,

jakes


1. The control plan should define all characterisitics which you intend to control. If there are characterisitics which you are not controlling, they do not have to be listed.

2. If it is a significant characteristic, or SC, it must be controlled.

3. Powerway makes a very robust database module which handles linking these documents automatically. If you chnage one, it chnages the other. I am not a fan of Powerway in general, but am told this module is quite good.

Is it fair to say that the Process Failure Mode on the PFMEA is the Control Characteristic on the Control Plan?

If so does every process failure need to be addressed in the control plan?


Lastly does anyone have an excel form that would automatically tranfer PFMEA information over to the Control Plan to begin that process?


Thanks in advance,

jakes

Welcome to the Cove :bigwave:

You've gotten some pretty good responses so far - so now I'll give you my :2cents:

I "normally" have Failure Modes on the PFMEA as part characteristics and Failure Causes as process characteristics. Thus, the transfer to the Control Plan is quite simple - Failure Modes are listed in the Product Characteristic column and Failure Causes are listed in the Process Characteristic column. I came to use this methodology due to the "best" software I have come across (I've checked quite a few out. Sorry Wes, but the Powerway module was one of the first I ruled out). It also will allow a process failure to be a Failure Mode (if you desire to do so). The software is distributed by Harpco. This software will "force" you to address each "process failure" (mode or cause) listed on the PFMEA in the Control Plan. As I have said before, I will not go back to a spreadsheet based system as there are too many "opportunities" for errors (unless, of course, I have to :rolleyes:). This software also "automatically tranfer PFMEA information over to the Control Plan".

Does that "muddy the waters" a bit more for you? (I actually hope it helps you out somewhat)

I have no association with Harpco other than being a user of their software.

Hello,

I was looking for the same topic since yesterday.
We had a customer audit and they shattered our PFMEA and Control plan methodology followed and downgraded the marks.
The main negative point by auditor was our Control plan addressed the same failure mode in PFMEA and it is not addresing the process steps for that failure mode.
Refer attached our example

:thanks:

Hello,

I was looking for the same topic since yesterday.
We had a customer audit and they shattered our PFMEA and Control plan methodology followed and downgraded the marks.
The main negative point by auditor was our Control plan addressed the same failure mode in PFMEA and it is not addresing the process steps for that failure mode.
Refer attached our example

:thanks:

Would you be willing/able to attach your PFMEA? Without a complete PFMEA and a Control Plan it would be difficult to provide suggestions. If not possible, we certainly understand the proprietary nature of these documents.

Stijloor.

Hello,

I was looking for the same topic since yesterday.
We had a customer audit and they shattered our PFMEA and Control plan methodology followed and downgraded the marks.
The main negative point by auditor was our Control plan addressed the same failure mode in PFMEA and it is not addresing the process steps for that failure mode.
Refer attached our example

:thanks:

The problems seem to be more in your control plan than in the PFMEA. You've copied the potential failure causes from the PFMEA into the Process Characteristics column on the control plan, and current process controls from the PFMEA into the Specification/Tolerance column on the control plan. While this is not the place for a comprehensive PFMEA/PCP tutorial, the link between the two documents is pretty simple--what you show in the PFMEA as "current process controls" should be reflected as controls in the PCP. Also, you should be differentiating between prevention and detection controls in the PFMEA. If you don't have copies of the AIAG APQP and FMEA manuals, you should get them. If you do a search of the Cove, you'll also find lots of information and examples.

Hello,
...our Control plan addressed the same failure mode in PFMEA and it is not addresing the process steps for that failure mode.


Why do you have failure modes listed in FC and CP?!: )

I believe that
- FC shall list process steps / material flow,
- PFMEA shall list potential nonconformities anticipated at each of the stages (which are listed in the FC) and controls excercised to prevent, detect and correct the noncomformities,
- CP shall list only the controls, responibilities and frequencies for each of the the controls (which are listed in the CP).

Hello,
Thanks for all the quick responses.
Here again I attached a detailed example of our's for Stiljoor

Thanks for the input to read AIAG Manual - Jim
Can you show a direct link in the cove for these examples?

I have to review and make one to get the approval and implement for the whole list.

:(:confused:
S.K

Hello,
Thanks for all the quick responses.
Here again I attached a detailed example of our's for Stiljoor

Thanks for the input to read AIAG Manual - Jim
Can you show a direct link in the cove for these examples?

I have to review and make one to get the approval and implement for the whole list.

:(:confused:
S.K

Go to the top of this page and click on "Post Attachment List." From the ensuing page you can search for PFMEAs and control plans in post attachments.

Hello Thank everybody for the help you offer ,this is the first time i come here and this is the only one site where i can find the pFMEA and CP reference for plastic mould in English version.

This graphic may help: Automotive Process Flow Diagram, Control Plan and Process FMEA Development (http://elsmar.com/APQP/sld056.htm).