All,

I am looking for some help.

I can describe the difference between a major nc and an NC. However does anyone have the offical definition? I would like to be able to show the offical definition and the offical source.

Your help / wisdom is appreciated.

With Regards,

Usually the term is Major or Minor nonconformity and, as far as quality systems, means the degree of nonconformance.

Let's say someone was reviewing your Gauge Control System. In one case they found everything was in compliance with the exception of 1 gauge on the shop floor without a gauge number on it. It might be called a "Minor Nonconformance".

Another time, one found that your monthly calibration has not be performed for the last 3 months. That is certainly a "Major Nonconformance".

I don't prescribe to this system but it is the usual used by 3rd party auditors.

The only official definition I'm aware of is in the automotive industry - the ISO/TS 16949 world. If you're not working in that market, there's no 'normal' ISO definition, for example.

Your CB might have their definition which could be useful. Some CB's make a distinction on the number of minors which constitute a major, for example.

Otherwise, it's up to you if you want to use the automotive variety......

There are numerous existing discussion threads her on the differences and interpretations. Look at the bottom of this page (Where is says "Similar Threads") and see the following existing discussion threads on Major vs. Minor Nonconformances (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/search.php?do=process&titleonly=1&query=major+minor).

If you have further specific questions, feel free to ask.

Thank you all.

It is the TS16949 standard we work too. I have found the offical definitions within the scheme rules document.

Regards,

:):thanx:

All,

I am looking for some help.

I can describe the difference between a major nc and an NC. However does anyone have the offical definition? I would like to be able to show the offical definition and the offical source.

Your help / wisdom is appreciated.

With Regards,

Since this has been posted under ISO TS 16949 I presume you are working in the automotive environment.
Then the definitions given in the IATF rules apply :

Quote :

A major nonconformity is one or more of:
- the absence of or total breakdown of a system to meet an lSO/TS 16949:2002 requirement. A
number of minor nonconformities against one requirement can represent a total breakdown of
the system and thus be considered a major nonconformity.

- any non-compliance that would result in the probable shipment of nonconforming product. A
condition that may result in the failure or materially reduce the usability of the products or services
for their intended purpose.

- a non-compliance that judgment and experience indicate is likely either to result in the failure of
the quality management system or to materially reduce its ability to assure controlled processes
and products.



A minor nonconformity is a failure to comply with lSO/TS 16949:2002 which based on judgment
and experience is not likely to result in the failure of the quality management system or reduce its
ability to assure controlled processes or products. It may be one of the following:

- a failure in some part of the organization's quality management system relative to ISO/TS
16949:2002.
- a single observed lapse in following one item of a company's quality management system.

unquote

Best regards,

Antoine

For those who may not have a copy, here's the definition in the rules document:
A major nonconformity is one or more of :
- the absence of or total breakdown of a system to meet an ISO/TS 16949:2002 requirement. A number of minor nonconformities against one requirement can represent a total breakdown of the system and thus be considered a major nonconformity.
- any noncompliance that would result in the probable shipment of nonconforming product. A condition that may result in the failure or materially reduce the usability of the products or services for their intended purpose.
- a noncompliance that judgment and experience indicate is likely either to result in the failure of the quality management system or to materially reduce its ability to assure controlled processes and products.

Also, here's the aerospace version from AS9104:
Major: The absence of, or total breakdown of a quality management system element specified in the AQMS standard or any non-conformities where the effect is judged to be detrimental to the integrity of the product, processes or service.

Major Non-conformance – a specific audit report is classified as major non-conformance if consistent failure to address a fundamental requirement (clause or sub-clause) of the standard, consistent failure to implement a documented requirement of the management system – either in one area or by identification of a number of individual non-conformance in the same activity over several areas or an isolated non-conformance that directly impacts the product/service quality as required customer or external specificat

Minor Non-conformance – a minor is raised in all other circumstance where non-conformance is identified. A particular finding is likewise classified as minor non-conformance when process and procedures are implemented but there is lack in practice or they are not strictly followed.

I'm just thinking is it possible if we can quantify the severities of non conformance. for instance it's a minor but the severities is high? :rolleyes:

Minor...bug on windshield

Major...deer in windshield


With a minor you can still function, with a major you're not going anywhere until you fix it. (I actually teach it this way)

That is a great description. My dad would really understand it since he has experienced deer in the windshield. :)

We learnify much more better like with visualization........:D

We learnify much more better like with visualization........:D
loved the bug vs deer on windscreen analogy

re visual images and training - you might like this ..
http://www.slideshare.net/GeoffBrown3231/insanely-great-slideshow-presentations-the-why:magic:

Originally Posted by Ice2816 http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?p=295401#post295401)

I'm just thinking is it possible if we can quantify the severities of non conformance. for instance it's a minor but the severities is high? :rolleyes:

Why don't you simply consider this:

All Major NC's are high severity cases.

All Minor NC's are low severity cases.

Treat them all, but treat them on priority.

Ciao. :cool:

Great analogy, Randy. :applause:

Said it before, but it bears repeating. Lucky students to have Randy teaching them!;)

I think humour works wonders in a classroom - really helps the learning take!

Minor...bug on windshield

Major...deer in windshield

With a minor you can still function, with a major you're not going anywhere until you fix it. (I actually teach it this way)

re visual images and training - you might like this ..
http://www.slideshare.net/GeoffBrown3231/insanely-great-slideshow-presentations-the-why:magic:

Oh, loved it! Hadn't seen that one before. Thanks for that! :applause:

Minor...bug on windshield
Major...deer in windshield

With a minor you can still function, with a major you're not going anywhere until you fix it. (I actually teach it this way)

And according to that excellent presentation machrk quoted, this wayyyy increases the retention rate because it combines pictures (word pic here) with text. And adds in humour as well. Top marks all round.